128: Projective Identification Part II feat. Brian Ngo-Smith Teaser

Jan 3, 2026

Brian Ngo-Smith, a psychotherapist specializing in psychoanalytic perspectives, joins Abby and Patrick to explore projective identification and its impact on group dynamics. They discuss how this psychological concept manifests in group behaviors, affecting relationships in various settings like families and workplaces. Key topics include role suction, scapegoating, and the interplay of fear and leadership within groups. By transitioning from individual to collective experiences, they shed light on the real-world implications of projective identification.

Ask episode

AI Snips

Chapters

Transcript

Episode notes

INSIGHT

Projective Identification Feels 'Magical' In Groups

Projective identification can feel almost magical when someone makes you feel emotions that seem to belong to them.
Abby and Patrick note skepticism is natural, but group experience often makes the phenomenon feel true.

INSIGHT

Projective Processes Use Absolute States

Projective processes trade in absolute states like safe/unsafe and cohesive/falling-apart.
Patrick and Brian argue those binary stakes organize group life and political rhetoric.

INSIGHT

Paranoid-Schizoid Splits Produce Binary Roles

Projective phenomena emerge from paranoid-schizoid splits, which force binary thinking and roles.
Brian links everyday polemics and intimate complaints to the same underlying projective dynamics.

Get the Snipd Podcast app to discover more snips from this episode

Get the app

Subscribe to get access to the full episode, the episode reading list, and all premium episodes! www.patreon.com/OrdinaryUnhappiness

Brian Ngo-Smith returns for the second half of our miniseries on projective identification! In this episode, Abby, Patrick, and Brian pivot from the difficult terrain of theorizing projective identification in terms of individual development and abstract mental mechanisms to the much more tangible – and dramatic – manifestations of projective identification in group behavior. Indeed, as the three explore, thinking about projective identification in the interpersonal rather than intrapsychic domain is incredibly clarifying for understanding how groups come together, encourage various roles for their members, experience friction, manifest antagonisms, and otherwise function (or break down) in the real world. Building from two-person dyads to small groups to large collectivities, Brian, Abby, and Patrick apply the concept of projective identification at scale, thinking about everything from psychotherapy and marriage to classrooms and family businesses to giant corporations and politics at the national level and beyond. From “role suction” to scapegoating to Bion’s threefold model of group types and more, the three unpack some essential – and highly portable – terms, and work through how the idea of projective identification can help re-frame broader, longstanding questions about interpellation, leadership, solidarity, and more. They conclude with an extended consideration of the contemporary landscape of American mass incarceration, homelessness, and precarity, unpacking how the all-too-personal aspects of projective identification manifest in tandem with the operation of ostensibly impersonal histories, institutions, and policies to generate suffering, perpetuate inequality, and normalize logics of enactment, blame, trauma, indifference, and more.

More about Brian Ngo-Smith at https://ngosmiththerapy.com/ and https://ngosmithconsulting.com

Part I: https://ordinaryunhappiness.buzzsprout.com/2131830/episodes/18416396-127-projective-identification-part-i-feat-brian-ngo-smith

Our previous episode with Brian, “Hate, Help, and Housing: Psychoanalysis and Social Work”: https://ordinaryunhappiness.buzzsprout.com/2131830/episodes/14213981-36-hate-help-and-housing-psychoanalysis-and-social-work-feat-brian-ngo-smith