Tulsi Gabbard’s political career is truly singular: once a young progressive Democrat on the rise, then a gadfly taking surprise meetings with Bashar al-Assad, now she’s Donald Trump’s nominee to head up National Intelligence. Along the way, Gabbard has given almost everyone a reason not to vote for her.

Guest: Elaine Godfrey, staff writer covering national politics for The Atlantic.

Want more What Next? Join Slate Plus to unlock full, ad-free access to What Next and all your other favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the What Next show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.

Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme and Rob Gunther.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What Next | Was Tulsi Gabbard Always Like This?