The Tim Ferriss Show

#619: Dr. Suresh Muthukumaraswamy — LSD Microdosing, Classical Psychedelics vs. Ketamine, Science and Speed in New Zealand, Placebo Options, and The Infinite Possibilities of Studying Mind-Altering Compounds

Sep 2, 2022

Dr. Suresh Muthukumaraswamy, an associate professor of psychopharmacology at the University of Auckland, dives deep into the world of psychedelics and mental health. He compares the psychedelic effects of LSD with ketamine’s rapid antidepressant benefits, illuminating the promising role of scopolamine too. The conversation unpacks the complexities of placebo effects and emphasizes the urgent need for more research into psychedelics as therapeutic options. Suresh also discusses the evolving regulatory landscape and the societal challenges ahead in this groundbreaking field.

01:22:11

Episode guests

Suresh Muthukumaraswamy

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Quick takeaways

Dr. Suresh Muthukumaraswamy explores the effects of ketamine on brain function for rapid antidepressant effects.

Psychedelic research faces challenges like blinding placebo controls and individual variability in LSD microdosing response.

Government support is crucial to accelerate mental health research and position countries as leaders in the field.

Deep dives

The Evolution of the Edmund Hillary Fellowship

The podcast episode features a live recording from an event hosted by the Edmund Hillary Fellowship (EHF), discussing the organization's growth from a pilot immigration program to a fellowship of over 500 technologists, creatives, investors, and more. The EHF operates in New Zealand and boasts a diverse group of fellows from over 50 nationalities across various high-value sectors, aiming to create global impact projects rooted in New Zealand.

Differences between ketamine and other psychedelics

03:03

Psych Delics

01:46

Philanthropy Fuels Research Progress

01:00

Intro

2min

Exploring Psychopharmacology and Mental Health in New Zealand

8min

Ketamine vs. Classical Psychedelics

28min

Exploring Ketamine: Innovations and Implications

4min

Exploring Psychedelics and Mental Health

12min

The Evolving Frontier of Psychedelic Research

24min

Navigating the Complexities of Clinical Research and Intellectual Property

2min

Closing Reflections and a Newsletter Invitation

2min

Dr. Suresh Muthukumaraswamy — LSD Microdosing, Classical Psychedelics vs. Ketamine, Science and Speed in New Zealand, Placebo Options, and The Infinite Possibilities of Studying Mind-Altering Compounds

Dr. Suresh Muthukumaraswamy completed his PhD in Psychology at the University of Auckland in 2005 after which he joined the newly established Cardiff University Brain Research Imaging Centre as a postdoctoral fellow. While at Cardiff, he started research work with psychedelics in 2011 in collaboration with Professor David Nutt and Dr. Robin Carhart-Harris investigating the neuroimaging correlates of the psychedelic drugs psilocybin and LSD. In 2014, Suresh received a prestigious Rutherford Discovery Fellowship and returned to the University of Auckland where he works in the School of Pharmacy at the Faculty of Medical and Health Sciences and leads the Auckland Neuropsychopharmacology Research Group.

Suresh’s main research interests are in understanding how therapies alter brain function and behavior and in testing methodologies to measure these changes in both healthy individuals and patient groups — particularly in depressed patients.

At the University of Auckland, he has conducted clinical trials in depressed patients involving ketamine, scopolamine, and transcranial magnetic stimulation. He has received several Health Research Council of New Zealand research grants to support this work, including a grant to investigate the effects of microdoses of LSD on brain and cognitive function. Suresh has published 117 papers, with his work receiving 8000+ citations.

This special episode of the podcast is a live recording from an event hosted by the Edmund Hillary Fellowship (EHF). EHF began in 2016 as a pilot immigration program and has matured into a fellowship of more than 500 technologists, creatives, investors, entrepreneurs, educators, and systems designers, committed to New Zealand as a base camp for global impact. From more than 50 different nationalities, including New Zealand, fellows span a range of high-value sectors: media, education, cleantech, venture capital, and mental health initiatives/research just to name a few.

EHF and its fellows aim to make a meaningful impact in New Zealand/Aotearoa with projects that often have global applications.

Please enjoy!

[03:44] Current mental health and addiction trend lines in New Zealand.

[05:37] Compounds Suresh has researched.

[07:13] Does scopolamine have potential as an antidepressant?

[09:55] How ketamine differs from other psychedelics.

[16:20] The durability of antidepressant effects.

[21:45] How Suresh picks the focus of his research (example: LSD microdosing).

[24:43] Why New Zealand is unique for fostering psychedelic innovation.

[31:01] How could New Zealand improve the impact of scientific research?

[35:13] Inspiring research currently underway in New Zealand.

[37:40] Obstacles to getting ketamine labeled as an antidepressant.