Let's go shatter a glass steeple or two, shall we?

When it comes to women in ministry, the gains have been ever so gradual. And at the top levels of leadership — from seminary faculty and deans to senior clergy positions — women seem to have hit a wall. Fewer than 25 percent of seminary faculty and deans are women, as are 11 percent of presidents, according to the Association of Theological Schools.

This week Katelyn and Roxy are joined by two of those rarities — the Rev. Drs. Lakeesha Walrond and Serene Jones — who have shattered plenty of stained glass ceilings in their careers. As seminary presidents in New York City, the two are partnering together, hoping to offer more opportunities for future faith leaders. We talk to them about the realities of ministry today, the stakes women in seminary face and why we should actually be worrying about the men.

GUESTS:

• Rev. Dr. LaKeesha Walrond is the first Black woman to serve as president of New York Theological Seminary and a preaching pastor at First Corinthians Baptist Church NYC.
• Rev. Dr. Serene Jones is the first woman to serve as president of Union Theological Seminary and the author of "Call It Grace: Finding Meaning in a Fractured World."