"Econ 102" with Noah Smith and Erik Torenberg

A Debate with Scott Sumner: Industrial Policy, China, and National Security

Jan 15, 2025

In this engaging conversation, Scott Sumner, a renowned economist and former director at the Mercatus Center, dives into the shifting dynamics of U.S.-China relations and its impact on industrial policy. He critiques the retreat from neoliberalism towards more authoritarian approaches, especially in manufacturing green technology. The discussion also highlights China's role in global climate efforts, debates the effectiveness of tariffs, and underscores the essential link between manufacturing capabilities and national security amid rising geopolitical tensions.

57:30

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Episode guests

Scott Sumner

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Quick takeaways

The podcast discusses a shift from neoliberalism towards industrial policy and authoritarian nationalism, reflecting changing global economic dynamics.

Attention is drawn to China's manufacturing influence on green technology, raising concerns over U.S. trade barriers that may hinder climate progress.

Strategic engagement with China is emphasized as crucial for U.S. national security, advocating for balance between deterrence and diplomacy instead of aggressive stances.

Deep dives

Reflections on Time and Life

The discussion highlights how time perception changes with age, particularly referencing the sentiment that life can feel as though it's largely been lived by a certain age. One participant notes that even at 35, time seems to be accelerating compared to their 20s, indicating a universal experience of time's fleeting nature. This realization can provoke deeper reflections on life choices and future aspirations. The conversation sets the tone for the introspective topics that will unfold throughout the episode.

Intro

4min

Evolving Perspectives on Industrial Policy

9min

Navigating Economic Solutions in Political Landscapes

2min

China's Role in Green Technology and Industrial Policies

13min

The Complex Relationship Between Deregulation and Industrial Policy

4min

Manufacturing, Technology, and National Security

24min

In this episode, Noah Smith and Erik Torenberg are joined by Scott Sumner, an American economist and previously the Director of the Program on Monetary Policy at the Mercatus Center at George Mason University, examine the impact of U.S.-China relations on economic and industrial policies, discussing topics such as tariffs, manufacturing capabilities, technologies like drones and batteries, climate change, defense strategies, and the evolving role of neoliberalism.

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Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/id1786227593

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5hJzs0gDg6lRT6r10mdpVg

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ModernRelationshipsPod

Highlights from the Episode:

Neoliberalism vs. Industrial Policy: The world is moving away from neoliberalism toward industrial policy and authoritarian nationalism.
Chinese manufacturing of green technology has supported global climate efforts, sparking debate over whether US trade barriers on Chinese green tech are counterproductive, alongside a discussion of carbon taxes versus other climate policies.
China now matches US and allies combined in manufacturing capacity.
Trump's tariffs are seen as ineffective for reindustrialization, while Biden's CHIPS Act and IRA are viewed as more successful in specific sectors, prompting a discussion on targeted versus broad industrial policies.
Housing and healthcare costs are significant barriers to living standards.

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SEND US YOUR Q's FOR NOAH TO ANSWER ON AIR: Econ102@Turpentine.co

FOLLOW ON X:

@ScottSumnerTMI

@noahpinion

@eriktorenberg

@turpentinemedia

LINKS:

Noahpinion: https://www.noahpinion.blog/

The Pursuit of Happiness: https://scottsumner.substack.com/

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