140. Schools as Ministries for the Future, with Roman Krznaric

Listeners, a little over a year ago I attended a leadership conference here in my home city of Honolulu. At that conference the keynote, a futurist named Richard Yonck referred to a book he felt the 1000 business leaders in the audience needed to read. The book he referenced is The Good Ancestor, by Roman Krznaric. Five minutes after Yonck's reference Krznaric’s book was on its way to me via my Amazon app. The Good Ancestor changed the arc of my life and shifted my thinking about education 180 degrees. So it is with great pleasure that I bring to you today my interview with its author. In this episode I delve deep into the mind of one of the most thought-provoking authors of our time. Roman Krznaric is a public philosopher, social change advocate, and, as noted, the author of the influential book The Good Ancestor: How to Think Long Term in a Short-Term World. His work challenges us to reimagine how we approach the future, prioritize intergenerational justice, and rethink the systems that shape our lives—including and maybe most importantly, education. We begin with a walk through the world’s first Empathy Museum, an initiative Roman founded, which invites visitors to step into the shoes of others—literally and figuratively. From there, we explore how his own intercultural experiences as a young student in Hong Kong sparked a lifelong commitment to empathy and connection. Then, we geek out on Roman’s acclaim as a writer. The Good Ancestor has garnered praise from luminaries like The Edge of U2 fame, who called it “the book our children’s children will thank us for reading.” We discuss how such heartfelt endorsements fuel his mission to inspire long-term thinking. Subsequently, we turn our focus to the intersection of education and the ideas in The Good Ancestor. How can teachers incorporate concepts like Wade Davis’ ethnosphere into cross-disciplinary lessons that encourage students to think across time? How might legacy thinking, cathedral building, and imagination as a skill become the core of a reimagined curriculum? Roman shares actionable insights that educators can bring to life in their classrooms today. 

We also discuss bold ideas for governance, such as transitioning from nation-states to city-states, and how such shifts could empower students to design systems rooted in deep democracy and sustainable futures. And we explore the potential of a course modeled after Kim Stanley Robinson’s The Ministry for the Future, deputizing students as “ministers” tasked with addressing humanity’s greatest challenges.

Finally, listeners, as I write approximately 8 billion humans are alive on Earth. Over 50,000 years approximately 100 billion have already died. And, approximately 7 trillion humans will be born in the next 50,000 years. This episode is dedicated to the just born, and yet unborn. 

Sophie Halliday, a dear friend and the executive director of the Laulima Foundation here in Hawaii said the following for this episode: “The Good Ancestor has been an important part of my thinking as both a citizen of the world and as an educator. I was profoundly moved by Krznaric’s call for us to extend our time horizon when it comes to decision-making to shift towards acorn thinking, taking into consideration the interests of future generations. His work translating and amplifying indigenous knowledge and wisdom has deeply influenced my work with youth - a core mindset that we seek to instill in our Laulima Foundation youth advisory board members is a generational mindset: We ask, How might we infuse our decision-making to take into account future generations yet to be born?" Our episodes are engineered and edited by the talented Evan Kurohara. Our theme music comes from the catalog of pianist, Michael Sloan.