The What School Could Be Podcast

Listeners, buckle up. You’re about to meet a Virginia public school superintendent whose mother referred to him as Tom Sawyer, and for good reason. Dr. Jason Van Heukelum has been rallying people around bold visions since his earliest days in Rochester, New York. We can only imagine him convincing friends to join some backyard adventure, or today, getting entire communities to reimagine high school. Jason is someone who knows how to design and build—and bring others with him.He’s also the kind of educator, coach, guide and mentor who sees transformation not as a someday ideal, but as a here-and-now imperative. His 27-year journey includes teaching math, coaching sports, leading middle and high schools, and directing an American international school in La Paz, Bolivia. He brings deep systems experience, from classroom to central office, and a rock-solid belief that the secret to great schools lies in pairing high expectations with a deep connection to community, where so much of learning happens.Today, he’s the superintendent of Winchester Public Schools in Virginia and the driving force behind something extraordinary: the Emil and Grace Shihadeh Innovation Center, a cathedral to possibility and purpose that redefines what high school could be. No bells. Just young people walking through doors into real-world learning and a buffet of multiple choices.But before we get there, we’re heading to Algonquin, Canada, where a young Jason portaged a canoe across miles of wilderness. We’ll linger in Ecclesiastes, the Old Testament book that moves him, even on the hardest days, to rejoice in the work and find meaning in the mystery. We’ll talk about "The Speed of Trust," why relationships drive change, and what Jason means when he says, “The most important lessons we learn cannot be measured by standardized tests.” We’ll dive into the Shihadeh Center, his strategic vision for Winchester, and how his grad school capstone is becoming real through collaborative, school-based services.We’ll explore cathedral thinking, the future of public education, and the courage it takes to build innovation that lasts. And in the end, we’ll honor the wisdom of a mentor named Penny Hedrick, whose support Jason carries with him every day. To close these show notes I’ll quote from a letter written on Jason’s behalf: “The best leaders make everyone around them better. The best leaders improve the organization they lead, cultivate passionate and loyal followers who believe in their vision, and pave the way for future leaders to carry on their work when they are gone. Jason Van Heukelum is one of the best leaders I have had the opportunity to work with.”Our episodes are edited by the talented audio engineer, Evan Kurohara. Our theme music comes from the catalog of pianist, Michael Sloan.

Crystal Clark is a passionate and dedicated educator based in Kemmerer, Wyoming, with over two decades of experience in early childhood and elementary education. Currently serving as both a K–6 Instructional Facilitator and teacher in Lincoln County School District 1, she is a dynamic leader who thrives at the intersection of curriculum development, instructional coaching, and educator support. Crystal is deeply committed to hands-on, project-based learning and has played key roles in the RIDE initiative, the Rural Teacher Corps Program, and her district’s PLC and Building Leadership Teams. RIDE PD is supported by 2Revolutions. Crystal's work is rooted in meaningful collaboration, whether she’s mentoring new teachers, leading curriculum alignment efforts, or helping educators analyze data to drive classroom practice. Having received multiple professional educator certifications, she brings a research-informed approach to literacy and learning. Above all, she is known for cultivating warm, supportive environments where both students and teachers can thrive.And today, we’re going to stretch this story out across time and place—from Crystal’s childhood in a Wyoming town of 3,000 to her leadership in one of the state’s most ambitious education innovation efforts. Crystal and I talk about how the way we teach math can unintentionally create a sorting system, and why Crystal believes love of math starts in the earliest grades. We’ll explore what it truly means to coach teachers, how her deep roots in the Kemmerer community shape her impact, and why working side-by-side with educators—not above or outside—makes all the difference. Crystal will share how a single student helped define her “why,” and we’ll get a window into her vision for what Wyoming’s students could become when we remove barriers and build systems around relationships. You’ll also hear about a statewide showcase that puts hope on full display. You’ll hear about a children’s book manuscript Crystal wrote, a diamond-sized breakthrough in her professional practice, a new approach to SEL called BARR, and how it all comes back to mentorship and belonging. And when Crystal answers my final question with two names—Nikki Baldwin and her husband, Shane—you’ll understand exactly why I wanted to bring her voice to this podcast.What you are about to hear is not just the story of one educator—it is the story of what happens when roots run deep, when relationships guide the work, and when courage meets a commitment to community. Crystal Clark reminds us that transformation isn’t a theory. It’s a practice. It’s personal. And it’s happening—in Wyoming, and maybe, just maybe, in a school near you.The WSCB Podcast is edited by the talented Evan Kurohara. Our theme music is the pianist, Michael Sloan.

Jennifer Ahn is the executive director of Lead by Learning. She lives with her husband and children in northern California. The reason I asked Jennifer to be on this show is because I read an incredible book in 2024 titled Street Data. Carrie Wilson, the author of chapter 7 of Street Data and the former executive director of Lead by Learning wrote the following for this episode. “I remember over a decade ago, after Jennifer Ahn interviewed for a program associate position with us at Lead by Learning, I had this strong sense that there was nothing she couldn't do. So there are countless wonderful things to know about her. The first, which you are likely to detect in this conversation, is a combination of wicked intelligence and joyful spirit. There is a brilliant dynamism to her approach. She brings grounding, compassion, and clarity, which are much-needed qualities of leadership in these uncertain times. Showing up this way, she creates the conditions that allow for vulnerability, and also for an expansive sense of possibility and creativity. In working this way, Jennifer has made invaluable contributions to Lead by Learning and to public education. Jennifer designed and implemented the Lead by Learning Certificate Program, she built robust partnerships with Social and Emotional Learning departments and Expanded Learning teams, she pioneered Lead by Learning’s work with the Chicago Public Schools Fund, she created Lead by Learning’s Anti-racist Affinity Networks, and she developed a dynamic team of program leaders who are skilled at creating spaces that hold the complexity of what it means to lead, teach, and learn together. I am forever grateful for the way Jennifer continues to lead and develop Lead by Learning.” As you prepare to dive into this conversation, listeners, ask yourself if the true revolution in education isn’t happening in classrooms—but in the minds and hearts of the educators themselves. What if the way forward isn’t more training, more compliance, or more performance metrics—but a profound act of unlearning, re-seeing, and reconnecting? Jennifer Ahn believes that professional learning should be more than a box to check. For her, it’s about mending and reinforcing—yes, like sashiko stitching, which she is learning—and about letting art, dance, and story shape our understanding of what it means to grow, together. Most of all, Jennifer sees the deep value in being willing to be disturbed. Finally, listeners, Jennifer Ahn wrote the following words in an online article she shared with me: “In Braiding Sweetgrass, Robin Wall Kimmerer writes that “It’s such a simple thing but we all know the power of gratitude to incite a cycle of reciprocity.” Ahn goes on to say, When educators appreciate one another’s perspectives and they see how their collective perspectives lead to action, they feel empowered to spread it across their system.” As always, our episodes are edited by the amazing Evan Kurohara. Our theme music comes from the catalog of pianist, Michael Sloan.

Emine Naz Can, a Turkish university student and founder of Paridoc Academy, discusses her vision for reshaping education. She shares insights from her involvement in Nobel Navigators, a program that fosters global citizenship through collaboration. Emine emphasizes the need for educational systems that prioritize equity and emotional connection. The conversation touches on transformative travel, the impact of COVID-19 on learning, and the importance of embracing mistakes as part of the educational journey, all aimed at preparing students for real-world success.

Listeners, imagine a student who always loved school—not just for the grades or the gold stars, but for the challenge, the structure, the sense of accomplishment. A student who moved frequently as a kid, not worried about making friends, but determined to succeed academically. A student who “played school well,” but, looking back, remembers teachers more than lessons, relationships more than curriculum. That student was Rebecca Parks. Rebecca doesn’t just believe in education—she lives it. From a K-12 experience that set the stage for her passion to teach to the defining “failure moments” that forged her resilience in college, Rebecca’s journey has been one of learning, leading, and, most of all, reimagining what’s possible. And at the heart of her mission? A bold idea: that learning should be rooted in place, connected to the real world, and designed to spark curiosity and wonder. Her dissertation, The Impact of a Place-Based Environment on Elementary Students, is a call to action. It examines the power of place-based learning, where students don’t just sit at desks but engage with the world around them. She explored the country’s most innovative schools—Teton Science Schools in Wyoming, the Zoo Academy in Nebraska, Missouri’s WOLF Academy and many more—places where learning is hands-on, immersive, and deeply connected to the community. But she didn’t stop at research. As principal of Southview Elementary in southern Missouri, Rebecca led a school that became a state-recognized model for collaboration and professional learning. And in 2019, she took her vision even further, launching LENS—Learning and Exploring through Nature and Science—a groundbreaking school within a school, where a select group of third and fourth graders engaged in a non-traditional, science, nature-focused and archeology oriented curriculum while still meeting state standards. Her story is about breaking free from the factory model of education, embracing curiosity, and fostering a culture of learning that is real, meaningful, and alive. Today, we step into that story with her. So get ready; this is more than a conversation. It’s an invitation to rethink what’s possible in education. An invitation to consider what school could be, and what could be school. As always our episodes are edited by sound engineer, Evan Kurohara. Our theme music comes from the catalog of master pianist, Michael Sloan.

Imagine a school, not just built with bricks and mortar, but with hope. A place where students don’t just learn—they lead. A space where innovation isn’t a buzzword—it’s the foundation of every single day. Today on the What School Could Be Podcast, we step into the future of education with two visionary leaders who happen to live and work in the Great State of Rhode Island: Bryan Byerlee and Heather Breton. Heather grew up in Rhode Island, raised by a village—her grandparents, her teachers, and a community that shaped her into the educator she is today. She’s a believer in the power of connections, curiosity, and personalization—because no two students should or will ever walk the same path. Currently she is the principal at Rhodes Elementary in Rhode Island’s Cranston Public Schools. Bryan, also a Rhode Island native, found inspiration in the relationships he built while in school and on his life’s journey. I ask him to reflect on how hope, the state motto of Rhode Island and not just an abstract idea, is built from relationships, from moving at the speed of trust in a school culture where every voice matters. Bryan has been and continues to be the principal at Garden City Elementary, which is largely the focus of this episode. Together, they stand at the heart of Garden City Elementary, a groundbreaking school designed by Fielding International not just for students, but with the entire Garden City community. Imagine a place where learning spaces flex and shift, where nature meets design, and where education is reimagined through the lens of choice, autonomy, and well-being. In this episode, we’ll talk about what it means to design a school around students instead of fitting students into a school. We’ll explore the discomfort of change, the thrill of transformation, and the small, human moments that create lasting impact. We will address questions such as: How do learning environments contribute to deeper and collaborative learning? What does it look like when kids take charge of their own learning journeys? And how can the physical spaces we build today shape the communities of tomorrow? And if you think this episode is just about one school, think again. This conversation is about the future of education itself. Nathan Strenge, the Senior Learning Designer at Fielding International wrote the following for this episode: “I recommended Bryan and Heather for the What School Could Be Podcast because of their remarkable leadership during the launch of Garden City School. They embraced learner-centered teaching, empowering others to transform practices and shift from isolated classrooms to collaborative environments where student agency and joy flourish. Their lived experience exemplifies the heart of what school could be." So fasten your seatbelts, listeners; here is my conversation with Heather Breton and Bryan Byerlee. The show's audio is engineered by Evan Kurohara. Our theme music is provided by pianist, Michael Sloan.

Listeners, a little over a year ago I attended a leadership conference here in my home city of Honolulu. At that conference the keynote, a futurist named Richard Yonck referred to a book he felt the 1000 business leaders in the audience needed to read. The book he referenced is The Good Ancestor, by Roman Krznaric. Five minutes after Yonck's reference Krznaric’s book was on its way to me via my Amazon app. The Good Ancestor changed the arc of my life and shifted my thinking about education 180 degrees. So it is with great pleasure that I bring to you today my interview with its author. In this episode I delve deep into the mind of one of the most thought-provoking authors of our time. Roman Krznaric is a public philosopher, social change advocate, and, as noted, the author of the influential book The Good Ancestor: How to Think Long Term in a Short-Term World. His work challenges us to reimagine how we approach the future, prioritize intergenerational justice, and rethink the systems that shape our lives—including and maybe most importantly, education. We begin with a walk through the world’s first Empathy Museum, an initiative Roman founded, which invites visitors to step into the shoes of others—literally and figuratively. From there, we explore how his own intercultural experiences as a young student in Hong Kong sparked a lifelong commitment to empathy and connection. Then, we geek out on Roman’s acclaim as a writer. The Good Ancestor has garnered praise from luminaries like The Edge of U2 fame, who called it “the book our children’s children will thank us for reading.” We discuss how such heartfelt endorsements fuel his mission to inspire long-term thinking. Subsequently, we turn our focus to the intersection of education and the ideas in The Good Ancestor. How can teachers incorporate concepts like Wade Davis’ ethnosphere into cross-disciplinary lessons that encourage students to think across time? How might legacy thinking, cathedral building, and imagination as a skill become the core of a reimagined curriculum? Roman shares actionable insights that educators can bring to life in their classrooms today. We also discuss bold ideas for governance, such as transitioning from nation-states to city-states, and how such shifts could empower students to design systems rooted in deep democracy and sustainable futures. And we explore the potential of a course modeled after Kim Stanley Robinson’s The Ministry for the Future, deputizing students as “ministers” tasked with addressing humanity’s greatest challenges.Finally, listeners, as I write approximately 8 billion humans are alive on Earth. Over 50,000 years approximately 100 billion have already died. And, approximately 7 trillion humans will be born in the next 50,000 years. This episode is dedicated to the just born, and yet unborn. Sophie Halliday, a dear friend and the executive director of the Laulima Foundation here in Hawaii said the following for this episode: “The Good Ancestor has been an important part of my thinking as both a citizen of the world and as an educator. I was profoundly moved by Krznaric’s call for us to extend our time horizon when it comes to decision-making to shift towards acorn thinking, taking into consideration the interests of future generations. His work translating and amplifying indigenous knowledge and wisdom has deeply influenced my work with youth - a core mindset that we seek to instill in our Laulima Foundation youth advisory board members is a generational mindset: We ask, How might we infuse our decision-making to take into account future generations yet to be born?" Our episodes are engineered and edited by the talented Evan Kurohara. Our theme music comes from the catalog of pianist, Michael Sloan.

Join John Hattie, a renowned researcher known for Visible Learning, and Tony Frontier, an award-winning educator, as they dive into transformative educational practices. They discuss the framework of visible learning and its impact on student outcomes, emphasizing character development. The duo also tackles the IKEA effect, exploring how personal effort shapes educational experiences, and shares insights on the balance between product and process in learning. Plus, they examine AI's role in education, highlighting its potential and the challenges of integration.

In this engaging discussion, Sean Duffie, a dynamic Project Next PBL and Spanish-Immersion teacher from Michigan, shares his innovative approach to education. He delves into the importance of experiential learning shaped by his upbringing on a micro farm, contrasting it with traditional education. Duffie highlights collaborative projects like Campaign 44 and wordless storytelling, fostering creativity and social awareness among students. He also emphasizes the significance of strong relationships in empowering students to become active, engaged citizens.

My guest for this episode is LeeAnn Kittle, the director of sustainability programs for the Denver Public Schools. LeeAnn showed up on my radar screen because of a headline in EdWeek’s weekly newsletter. The headline read, "This Leader Partners With Students to Build a More Sustainable Future for Her District." At EdWeek’s website I discovered two more articles about LeeAnn, and vowed then and there to track down her contact and invite her to be my guest on the show. For the past several weeks I have been doing a deep dive into LeeAnn’s life, and work. She is an extraordinary human with a mile wide, and mile deep resume, all of which indicates she is a warrior for Planet Earth, and a powerful advocate for student voice. Describing her more formally, she is a strategic professional who has built sustainability programs in higher education and K-12 for over 15 years. She has a Master’s in Business Administration and a B.S. in Environmental Science. She is passionate about educating and inspiring her community on sustainability initiatives to address pressing climate issues. She works hard to change the narrative from climate crisis to one of bold action, innovation, and accountability. LeeAnn has implemented green roofs, rooftop solar, community solar, building and fleet electrification, natural resource management, and student engagement. She has served on several boards across the front range including organizations such as US Green Building Council, Recycle Colorado, and the Colorado Association for School District Energy Managers. She also took part in NREL’s Energy Executive Leadership Program and was recently named Energy Manager of the Year for the Central and South US through the Association of Energy Engineers. Most of all, LeeAnn is a strong advocate for the power and the promise of public education. I spent some time researching the team LeeAnn built for the Denver Public Schools Sustainability program. Wow, their collective commitment to Planet Earth and opportunity-based learning for young learners put a charge in my battery that will last for months, I am sure. From LeeAnn's online biography I noted that she grew up in Cleveland catching frogs, kicking a soccer ball, and holding her own among her three brothers. When she’s not feeling the constant shame of failing to get through her inbox, she can be found spending time with her family, watching The Wizard of Oz, or letting her creative juices flow through art or fashion.These episodes are edited by the talented Evan Kurohara. Our music comes from the vast catalog of my college roommate and master pianist, Michael Sloan.