"So, there's the thing about the pushback around this is just too difficult and complex, and it's just like, "Well, get over it, because the challenges we face are difficult, and complex, and we need to evolve different ways of working to meet them." So I'm not particularly sympathetic to that response. And I also note that I think there's a common sense of people's of urgency and frustration is, "I want to do action, I want to be involved in action." And then I quite often hear in the next sentence, "We're really bad at collaborating with others." And it's like, "Well, this is the point, and these two things actually aren't mutually exclusive." This is about investing in ways of organising to enable more joined up ways of acting. And the fact that we're not doing it at the moment, and we have to shift our mindsets, and our skillsets, and ways of working towards it is just a challenge. But it's better than the alternatives".

Join Alex Hannant and Menzies Foundation CEO, Liz Gillies as they explore catalytic philanthropy, systems transformation and uncover the conditions we need to accelerate regenerative and distributive futures.

Alex Hannant is Executive in Residence, Griffith Centre for Systems Innovation and Director, Pocketknife