In this discussion, Johannes Gerschewski, a research fellow at the WZB, delves into how autocrats maintain power through the strategies of hyper-politicization and de-politicization. He examines the delicate balance between repression and legitimacy, drawing parallels to contemporary U.S. politics and the looming figure of Trump. Gerschewski also critiques the usefulness of the term 'fascist' today while exploring how autocracies evolve, especially in East Asia, revealing the complex interplay between democratic values and rising authoritarianism.
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insights INSIGHT
Three Core Autocratic Tasks
Autocratic regimes must perform three tasks for survival: co-opt key elites, repress dissent, and gain popular legitimacy. - These tasks target threats from elites, opposition, and the people to create regime certainty.
insights INSIGHT
Two Logics of Autocratic Rule
Autocrats maintain power through two main logics: over-politicization and depoliticization. - Over-politicization mobilizes people through ideology and harsh repression, while depoliticization keeps people passive, using performance legitimation and softer repression.
question_answer ANECDOTE
Real Cases of Autocratic Logics
North Korea, Vietnam, and Mao's China exemplify over-politicization with strong ideology and harsh repression. - Singapore, Taiwan, and Malaysia show depoliticization by focusing on economic growth and using softer repression.
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In this episode Licia Cianetti talks to Johannes Gerschewski about his book The Two Logics of Autocratic Rule (Cambridge UP, 2023). We discuss how autocrats try to either hyper-politicise or de-politicise their rule in order to stay in power, whether the word “fascist” is useful today, and what the two logics identified in the book might tell us about politics in contemporary autocratising democracies. As we recorded during Johannes’s stay at Thomas Mann House in LA, soon after the US 2024 elections, a lot of this had unavoidably to do with Trump. *This episode was recorded soon after the US elections, before the LA fires and Trump's second inauguration*
Johannes Gerschewski is research fellow at the WZB and academic coordinator of the Theory Network at the Cluster of Excellence SCRIPTS. In his research, he works both theoretically and empirically on questions of legitimacy, stability, and crisis proneness of democratic and autocratic regimes.
The People, Power, Politics podcast brings you the latest insights into the factors that are shaping and re-shaping our political world. It is brought to you by the Centre for Elections, Democracy, Accountability and Representation (CEDAR) based at the University of Birmingham, United Kingdom. Join us to better understand the factors that promote and undermine democratic government around the world and follow us on Twitter at @CEDAR_Bham!