Future Learning Design Podcast

Why countries should get out of PISA! - A Conversation with Dr. Yong Zhao

Feb 18, 2024

Dr. Yong Zhao challenges the idea of countries relying on PISA scores, advocating for personalized education instead. He emphasizes the importance of diversity and local context in shaping effective learning environments. The conversation delves into redefining education beyond standardized norms and promoting intrinsic values in the educational system.

31:23

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Episode guests

Yong Zhao

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Episode notes

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Quick takeaways

Value diversity in education for inclusivity and effectiveness.

Question the validity of global rankings and advocate for personalized education approaches.

Deep dives

The Importance of Diversity in Education

Diversity is highlighted as a key factor for the future of education. The podcast emphasizes the need to value diversity within educational systems to promote a more inclusive and effective learning environment. The discussion delves into the challenges associated with centralized and standardized national education systems, emphasizing the importance of embracing diversity, localizing education, and personalizing learning experiences for students.

Introduction

2min

Embracing Luck and Diversity in Education

4min

Challenging the Notion of Fixing Individuals to Fit Established Norms

2min

Challenging Global Education Ranking Systems

15min

Exploring Global Turmoil and the Decline of Heroic Leadership

3min

Redefining Education for Intrinsic Value

6min

⁠Yong Zhao⁠ is a Foundation Distinguished Professor in the ⁠School of Education at the University of Kansas⁠ and a professor in Educational Leadership at the Faculty of Education, University of Melbourne in Australia. He previously served as the Presidential Chair, Associate Dean, and Director of the Institute for Global and Online Education in the College of Education, University of Oregon, where he was also a Professor in the Department of Educational Measurement, Policy, and Leadership. Prior to Oregon, Yong Zhao was University Distinguished Professor at the College of Education, Michigan State University, where he also served as the founding director of the Center for Teaching and Technology, executive director of the ⁠Confucius Institute⁠, as well as the US-China Center for Research on Educational Excellence. He is an elected member of the ⁠National Academy of Education⁠ and a fellow of the ⁠International Academy of Education⁠.

In this conversation we chat about why the US should abandon PISA - the "nonsensical global academic horse race": https://dianeravitch.net/2024/02/12/yong-zhao-why-doesnt-the-u-s-scrap-pisa/

"If ChatGPT had taken the 2022 PISA, it is highly likely that it would outscore all the students in the world.”

We also discuss why countries generally should stop comparing and borrowing from each other, and why diversity and localisation and personalisation are Yong’s keys to how the educational landscape needs to develop in the future.

Recent books and articles:

Duck and Cover: Confronting and Correcting Dubious Practices in Education with Rick Ginsberg (2023)

'Shifting the Education Paradigm: Why International Borrowing is No Longer Sufficient for Improving Education in China' (2018).

'“Testing treats students as enemies and are often launched against them in an ambush”, wrote Mao in 1964, “It works against the active and lively development of youth morally, intellectually, and physically”'

Learning for Uncertainty: Reach for greatness (2023)

Social Links

LinkedIn: @yong-zhao

X: @YongZhaoEd