I often ponder—why do some people own and build companies, while most people are destined to spend their careers as employees.

In Part II of my interview with Mike Payne, owner of Hill Manufacturing & Fabrication, we explore this question. Mike comes from a family of six generations of teachers, not business managers or entrepreneurs, and he says he was a “mess” in high school without direction.

There’s no question that he’s smart and ambitious, but there are lots of people out there with those qualities, and only a small handful of them acquire and grow manufacturing companies.

I enjoyed pushing Mike to analyze how and why he does what he does, and I think he enjoyed being pushed. Spoiler alert, it goes a lot deeper than just making a bunch of money and being your own boss.

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Interview Highlights

Do the Richest People Work Less?

Noah Graff: Many people in the world work incredibly hard, but the richest people aren’t necessarily the ones working the hardest. What is it about entrepreneurs and successful company owners who can replace themselves that makes them different?

Mike Payne: I’ll start with a slight disagreement. You said the richest people don’t work the hardest. I don’t totally disagree, but let me use one example that challenges that—Elon Musk. He’s the richest person in the world, and I’d venture to say he works harder than anybody.

Noah: A lot of the richest people don’t work as hard as somebody in India digging a ditch, or somebody working three jobs. It depends what you mean by work.

Mike: As a society, we think this way. My own team sees me drive a nice truck and go on trips, and they think, “I’m working harder than he is.”

In many ways, they are—physically for sure. This is true of most successful people. And I want to distinguish between business owners and successful business owners, because there are many business owners in the world.

If I put myself in the category of someone who works hard and is “successful,” I still get up and go to work every day. But my favorite line, which I read a couple years ago, is perfect here: “The best thing about owning your own company is you get to choose which 80 hours a week you work.”

I’m not stuck on someone else’s schedule. I get to do it whenever I want, but I have to do it.

Why Mike is a Company Owner

Noah: Let’s go back to the hardest question—why are there certain people like you who just naturally take charge?

Mike: I have a sense of purpose that’s bigger than me. When we talked about creating opportunities for my people, that’s my purpose. Yes, I want to buy companies, make money, do good deals, but a lot of that purpose is to create opportunities for other people.

Your purpose could be a lot of things, but with a purpose, you automatically do more. You’ve got to care about something. I can see it with everybody we hire in the shop. If they have a purpose in their life, they’re a better employee than the ones who see it just as a means to get a paycheck on Friday.

Noah: Do you think your parents did something to make you have this mentality?

Mike: No, I can’t point to that. My dad’s side of the family is six generations of educators. Mom’s side was farmers, blue-collar labor workers. I didn’t have that “I’m gonna follow in the footsteps” thing at all.

But in all honesty, I don’t know that I can even really take credit for it. All I ever did was just work. I work hard. I’m not the smartest person in the world, I’m definitely not the best looking, but I do work hard and I always worked hard. When I got myself in binds, financially or otherwise, the only thing I ever knew to do was work harder.

How his Wife Changed Mike’s Life

Noah: Can you recall a big serendipitous moment in your life?

Mike: My wife and I went to the same high school. I was two years older. We both went to the University of Tulsa. We knew each other, had mutual friend circles, but weren’t close. I was a mess in high school.

I didn’t have a lot of direction in life. When I think about me then versus me now, I’m like, how does that journey even add up? How does that guy become this guy?

I was finishing my sophomore year of college, she’s coming in as a freshman. I see her at the bar and say, “Hey, I know you, we went to high school together.” It takes me like two months to convince her to go on a date with me because she’s so well-grounded that all she knew was the me from high school. She’s like, “I’m not dating that guy. He’s a mess.”

From that point forward, I had to prove myself. I had to convince this woman that I had changed and that I had purpose in life. Quite honestly, I would still tell you today that I out-kicked my coverage.

Question: Why do you own your company, or why would you want to own a company?