In this conversation, Kurtis discusses his transition from CCI to establishing the Africa Urban Lab at the African School of Economics in Zanzibar. He highlights the urgent need for new universities in Africa to harness the continent's demographic potential and improve education quality. The conversation delves into the challenges of setting up a university, the focus on practical skills in the curriculum, and the strategic advantages of Zanzibar as a location. Kurtis also outlines the vision for the Africa Urban Lab and the broader goals for CCI in the coming years. In this conversation, Kurtis and Mark delve into the complexities surrounding charter cities, particularly in Honduras, discussing the political risks, the importance of local integration, and the lessons learned from historical transformations. They explore the role of institutions in economic growth and the challenges faced by societies with fragmented ideologies. The discussion culminates in a reflection on the strategies for economic development, emphasizing the need for a nuanced understanding of institutional frameworks and local contexts.