This week, Max and Maria were joined again by Michael Kimmage, and Michael's frequent co-author and a fellow for Europe at the Council on Foreign Relations, Liana Fix. Recently, Michael and Liana published a piece in Foreign Affairs titled, "A Containment Strategy for Ukraine: How the West Can Help Kyiv Endure a Long War," and they shared their piece's main arguments and conclusions over the course of the episode. This conversation was recorded on December 8, 2023.

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"A Containment Strategy for Ukraine: How the West Can Help Kyiv Endure a Long War," by Liana Fix and Michael Kimmage