The Lawfare Podcast

Michael Gottlieb on that Giant Judgment Against Rudy Giuliani

Jan 9, 2024

Michael Gottlieb, a litigation partner and national security lawyer, discusses his $148 million judgment against Rudy Giuliani on behalf of election workers. They explore using defamation law against disinformation, the impact of conspiracy theories and disinformation on democracy, and the shocking lies told by Giuliani. They also analyze Trump's remarks, the significance of the verdict, and the role of Fox News in disseminating false allegations.

52:22

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Episode guests

Michael Gottlieb

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Episode notes

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Quick takeaways

Using defamation law can provide protection to individuals and send a message about the consequences of spreading lies and disinformation.

While defamation law can protect individuals, it has limitations and cannot address the broader issue of disinformation in political discourse and policy debates.

Deep dives

Summary of the Podcast Episode

The podcast episode features an interview with Michael J. Gottlieb, a litigation partner at the Wilkie Law Firm. Gottlieb discusses his involvement in a case against Rudy Giuliani on behalf of election workers Ruby Freeman and Shay Moss. The case focused on defamation and disinformation spread during the 2020 election. Gottlieb explains how the use of defamation law can provide protection to individuals and send a message about the consequences of spreading lies and disinformation. He also discusses the limitations of this legal strategy and highlights the importance of individual accountability in the face of disinformation campaigns.

Introduction

4min

Representing Election Workers Defamed by Trump Campaign

10min

Race and Disinformation in the January 6th Committee Hearings

7min

The Shocking Comments and Lies Surrounding Election Workers

5min

The Giuiliani Libel Suit and $149 Million Judgment

8min

Trump's Remarks about Ruby Freeman and Shay Moss

18min

Discussion on January 6th Committee Hearings and Call to Promote Podcast

2min

Michael J. Gottlieb is a litigation partner at the Willkie law firm. He is a long-time national security lawyer, served in Barack Obama's White House Counsel's office, and used to be the civilian lead on a task force that built rule of law institutions in Afghanistan.

Late last year, he won a $148 million dollar judgment against Rudy Giuliani on behalf of election workers Shaye Moss and Ruby Freeman. He joined Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes to talk about the case, how he and the advocacy group Protect Democracy teamed up to use defamation law to fight disinformation and the big lie, what the use of defamation in this way can and cannot be expected to do, and how he went from building rule of law institutions in Afghanistan to representing people who have had their lives turned upside down by a toxic media ecosystem.

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