In this episode, Andy interviews Jim Kouzes about the Seventh Edition of the classic book The Leadership Challenge (7th Edition): How to Make Extraordinary Things Happen in Organizations. They discuss the fundamentals of leadership, the impact of the global pandemic on leadership, leading across generations, and more. Jim shares practical insights and emphasizes the importance of deliberate practice in leadership development. It's an insightful conversation about timeless leadership principles with one of the most respected voices in the leadership field over the decades.

• "Leadership is a relationship and listening is fundamental to building a positive relationship."
• (Regarding diversity and inclusion) "Let's assume for a moment, you have the right mix of people. That doesn't mean that any of those people feel included and feel valued. The key word is feel...."
• "I've often thought about leadership as a profession. If you're doing something eight hours a day or more, like leading others, then it's a profession. And if you look at professionals, like athletes, they all have coaches."
• "Our data shows that the pattern of behaviors of exemplary leaders is not generationally specific."
• "Generalizing about a generation is, in its own way, a form of discrimination."
• "One word: practice. Or maybe three words: practice, practice, practice."

• 00:00 Introduction
• 02:20 Start of Interview
• 02:34 How The Leadership Challenge classic came to be
• 07:24 What has changed about leadership over the years? Or not?
• 18:02 Leading in a virtual environment
• 21:38 Diversity and inclusion beyond the numbers
• 24:04 How to deal with divisiveness
• 30:06 Leading across generational divides
• 34:39 What's one thing aspiring leaders should focus on?
• 37:43 What retirement looks like for Jim
• 39:39 Interview Wrap Up
• 40:04 Andy Comments After the Interview
• 43:10 Outtakes

You can learn more about Jim and his book at LeadershipChallenge.com.

If you’d like more on this subject, here are some episodes to check out:

• Episodes 62, 63,, and 153, with Jim Kouzes
• Episode 391, with Adam Bryant about his book Leap to Leader

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Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast!

Talent Triangle: Power Skills

The following music was used for this episode:

Music: Summer Morning by MusicLFiles License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Music: Fashion Corporate by Frank Schroter License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license