Wicked Problems - Climate Tech Conversations

Tadzio Mueller: The Case for "Just Collapse"

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Feb 18, 2024

In a riveting discussion, Tadzio Mueller, a political scientist and climate activist, explores the provocative idea of 'just collapse' as a response to the climate crisis. He critiques current activism strategies and questions the viability of decoupling economic growth from emissions. The conversation dives into psychological barriers to action, the implications of corporate accountability, and the urgent need for community solidarity. With insights into the evolution of activism since 2009, Mueller challenges listeners to rethink their approach amidst rising environmental crises.

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Intro

00:00 • 2min

Navigating Activism and Technology in the Climate Crisis

02:09 • 3min

Evolving Climate Activism and Systemic Challenges

05:20 • 16min

Climate Activism and Corporate Response

21:23 • 7min

Redefining Climate Action and Community Resilience

28:37 • 17min

Navigating the Nuances of Environmental Collapse

45:42 • 2min

Facing the Climate Crisis: Urgency and Denial

48:11 • 15min

Navigating Climate Chaos in a Post-Pandemic World

01:03:03 • 26min

Reflecting on Meaningful Conversations and Future Connections

01:29:20 • 3min

What if we’re too late for a “Just Transition”, and the best we can hope for is a “Just Collapse”?

Dr. Tadzio Mueller started as an alter-globalisation protest leader in 1999 before embracing climate activism.

A spat on BlueSky with climate analyst and previous guest Ketan Joshi led to the suggestion to come on the show.

Richard differs on the inevitability, but this is a conversation, not a shouting match. It roams from LNG to “electric capitalism” to Paul Kingsnorth and crises of faith to Michael E. Mann to Isaac Asimov to adaptation.

Email info@wickedproblems.uk

Time Codes & Highlights

* [00:04:38] - Introduction to Tadzio Mueller, his background, and his evolution from an alter-globalization activist to a proponent of the "just collapse" theory.

* [00:05:20] - Insights into the dynamics of climate activism, the limitations of summit protests, and the strategic shifts within the movement.

* [00:11:04] - Mueller's personal journey through activism, including his preemptive arrest in 2009 and the realization of the inadequacies of current climate activism strategies.

* [00:17:31] - A critical examination of the relationship between economic growth and emissions, challenging the feasibility of decoupling them in the context of climate change.

* [00:26:59] - Exploring the psychological barriers to effective climate action, including societal repression and denial, and their impact on policy and activism.

* [00:33:56] - Introduction to the concept of "just collapse," its implications for society, and the necessity for a reevaluation of activism and societal priorities in the face of climate collapse and rising fascism.

* [00:54:58] - Mueller's take on the limitations of the degrowth movement and the distinction between analytical frameworks and actionable strategies in addressing climate collapse.

* [01:07:03] - Reflections on COVID-19 as a moment of potential leverage for governments to influence capitalism and its relevance to climate activism.

Recommended Resources

* Peaceful Sabotage - Where you can find his writings in German and English.

* Reflections on 1999 WTO protests in Seattle.

* Tadzio speaks in 2015 outside COP21 in Paris about the “Ende Gellände” movement that led to the pledge to phaseout lignite coal in Germany.

* Lützerath - the German village bulldozed in 2023 for a coalmine, and a turning point for Dr. Mueller.

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