Decoding Geopolitics Podcast with Dominik Presl #85 Michael Hirsh: The Dark Logic Behind America’s New Foreign Policy
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Sep 28, 2025 In this engaging discussion, Michael Hirsh, a seasoned foreign policy journalist at Foreign Policy, delves into the resurgence of realism in U.S. foreign policy. He contrasts realism with liberal internationalism, exploring how recent global events have shaped this shift. The conversation touches on the implications of a realist approach for U.S. relations with Ukraine, Europe, and China. Hirsh also analyzes the evolving perspectives of prominent figures like J.D. Vance and Marco Rubio, discussing how they impact the Republican Party's future foreign policy direction.
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Realism Versus Liberal Internationalism
- Realism contrasts with Wilsonian liberal internationalism by prioritizing power over international law.
- Michael Hirsh argues realism has become mainstream in Washington as power politics regained prominence.
Iraq War Helped Erode The Postwar Order
- Post-Cold War U.S. actions, especially the Iraq invasion, eroded faith in the postwar international order.
- Hirsh links public weariness and perceived exploitation to realism's rising appeal.
Realists Inside A Non-Realist President
- Trump himself isn't a studied realist, but several officials in his circle identify as realists.
- Elbridge Colby and a younger 'restrainer' cohort pushed realist restraint inside the administration.