Airplane Geeks Podcast 860 The Edge of Disaster
A guest panel discusses aircraft accidents, air turbulence injuries, airline and airframer culture, pilot training and experience, FAA shortfalls, and other topics that impact the flying public. In the news, the 90-second evacuation rule, the fatal Jeju Air crash at Muan Airport, and Zunum Air’s suit against Boeing for the misappropriation of trade secrets.
Guests
Chris Manno became an Air Force pilot after graduation from college and served seven years as a squadron pilot in the Pacific. He flew as a pilot with American Airlines for 35 years and was a captain for 29 of those years. Over his career, Chris logged over 25,000 hours of jet time. He’s a cartoonist and author of many books. Chris has just written a new book based on actual airline incidents titled Whiskey Air. It’s a fictionalized deep-dive into actual airline incidents.
James Albright co-wrote Whiskey Air. He’s a fellow USAF pilot (they flew together in a squadron in PACAF) who went on to command a USAF squadron, then retired and spent another twenty years as a corporate pilot. He also writes safety analysis for AvWeek.
Erin Applebaum is a Partner in the aviation practice at Kreindler & Kreindler LLP. She represents the interests of passengers severely injured or killed in general aviation and commercial airline accidents. Erin is currently on the team representing numerous victims of the DCA midair collision. She’s also handling cases on behalf of several passengers from the February 2025 Delta Air Lines crash in Toronto. Erin is a foremost authority on litigating claims governed by the Montreal Convention, the international treaty on commercial air travel.
Erin’s other major cases at Kreindler include the Southwest Airlines Flight 1380 catastrophic engine failure and the Liberty Helicopters doors-off tour helicopter crash in the East River. For the past six years, Erin has played a key role in Kreindler’s fight against Boeing in the Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302/737 MAX litigation. She was appointed by the court as a member of the Plaintiffs’ Executive Committee for the Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 cases and was instrumental in the victims’ families’ effort to overturn the Deferred Prosecution Agreement between Boeing and the Department of Justice.
Discussion
In this episode’s roundtable, our guests bring their knowledge and experience to the discussion of important issues faced by the industry, including:
- The 90-second evacuation rule.
- The liability of the airlines, airports, and the regulators.
- Boeing’s corporate culture, reputation, and the DOJ’s criminal case.
- Profit motives over safety.
- Decision making in the cockpit and being the captain that sometimes has to say, “no.”
- Lack of FAA oversight resources and the Aviation Safety Action Program (ASAP).
- Delegated oversight authority.
- Injuries sustained due to air turbulence.
See:
Code 7700 page by James Albright
Rough Skies Ahead: Legal Options for Turbulence Injuries [PDF] by Erin Applebaum and Taylor Sandella.
Aviation News
Senator Pushes FAA to Examine Aircraft Evacuation Rules
Senator Tammy Duckworth (D-Ill.) sent a letter to the FAA asking the agency to compare its 90-second evacuation standard against recent incidents. The rule originated in the late 1960s and requires aircraft manufacturers to demonstrate during certification that all passengers and crew can evacuate the aircraft within 90 seconds, even with only half of the emergency exits available.
Duckworth’s letter: “While FAA has yet to disclose how long any of the referenced passenger evacuations took, these incidents once again raise serious questions about FAA’s 90-second evacuation standard as well as FAA’s assumptions about how evacuations occur in real world conditions (such as the assumption every passenger will comply with instructions to deplane without carry-on bags).”
Duckworth wants the FAA to describe how long they took, how many passengers exited with bags, and how many were children, seniors, or disabled.
Decades of Blunders Put a Lethal Wall at the End of a South Korean Runway
The Korean Maeil Business Newpaper reports that the New York Times “extensively secured and reviewed 26 years’ worth of Muan Airport-related data, including the initial design drawing of Muan Airport, and listened to opinions from experts and bereaved families.” This concerns the fatal Jeju Air crash last year at Muan Airport. The original Muan Airport design in 1999 stipulated that localizers should be easily broken in collisions to “minimize fatal damage to aircraft in the event of a collision,” the NYT said. However, this design was changed in 2003 and the support of the localizer was changed to hard concrete rather than brittle structures.
Boeing interfered with electric plane startup Zunum, appeals court finds
Electric airplane startup Zunum Aero, founded in 2013 and backed by Boeing and JetBlue, went out of business in 2019 after running out of funding. Zunum then sued Boeing, alleging that Boeing used its position as an investor to steal Zunum’s trade secrets. Also, that Boeing sought to discourage other groups from investing, forcing the company to cease operations.
A Seattle jury ruled against Boeing in 2024, but two months later, a federal judge reversed that decision. Now the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals reversed that decision and reinstated the $72 million verdict against Boeing. The case was remanded back to the district court to finalize the verdict.
Hosts this Episode
Max Flight, Rob Mark, David Vanderhoof and our Main(e) Man Micah.