How We Lose Ourselves in Work: The Hidden Cost of Productivity with Mack Fogelson

Why are so many of us burned out, checked out, or emotionally detached at work? In this episode of The Vitalist Podcast, Dr. Sera talks with organizational designer and certified Dare To Lead facilitator, Mack Fogelson about why we disconnect from our work and how to rebuild connection, purpose, and vitality from the inside out.

We unpack the hidden design flaws in how most organizations operate, why “learned helplessness” shows up at every level, and how our personal patterns, like people-pleasing, perfectionism, or busyness, mirror the systems we work within. Mack shares her simple but powerful framework, Ways of Being + Ways of Doing = Ways of Working, and the surprising first step she uses to help teams heal: slowing down.

Whether you’re a solopreneur, a team leader, or just trying to feel more like yourself at work, this conversation will help you see your work not as the problem, but as one of your greatest teachers in self-trust, boundaries, and emotional resilience.

BIO: 

Mack Fogelson is a powerful, courageous, wholehearted change-maker. As an Organization Designer, she has guided entrepreneurs, leaders, and companies all over the world — from organizations like Apple, to those with hundreds of employees — to redesign their systems and build braver cultures. Mack lives in Fort Collins, Colorado where she's raising her two teenagers. She writes about uncertainty on Substack (https://mackfogelson.substack.com/). You can also find more about her and her work on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/mackenziefogelson/) and her website (https://mackfogelson.com/).

HIGHLIGHTS: 

The biggest way we give away our power at work is through learned helplessness; waiting to be told instead of trusting ourselves to lead. (1:39)

We don’t become different people at work; the same patterns of hiding or shrinking show up wherever we go. (2:42)

Disconnection happens when we avoid what’s uncomfortable, at work and at home. (3:32)

Mack’s framework for change: Ways of Being + Ways of Doing = Ways of Working. (4:02)

Our organizational systems create both the behaviors we want and the ones that keep us stuck. (7:28)

Everyone wants to go faster, but Mack’s advice is simple: slow down, zoom out, and breathe. (8:45)

For entrepreneurs, resilience begins by catching the stories we tell ourselves about success, failure, and worth. (12:29)

Mack shares how she learned to move from living in her head to trusting the wisdom of her body. (15:59)

Even if we can’t change the systems at work, we can choose how we show up, through rest, nourishment, and radical accountability. (19:08)

Mack’s advice on setting boundaries in the work place. (22:26)

Psychological safety starts with creating meeting structures that make space for truth and vulnerability. (25:15)

Organizations mirror the human body: when one part is blocked, the whole system suffers. (26:40)

Our work is one of our greatest spiritual teachers; it reveals where we’ve abandoned ourselves and where freedom is waiting. (29:40)

Workaholism is a socially accepted stress cycle that keeps us too busy to feel. (31:35)

Built on the work of Brene Brown, The Resilience Cycle helps leaders return to awareness, regulation, and grounded response. (36:27)

When we shift from burden to possibility, we unlock creativity, curiosity, and flow. (44:50)

Centering around energy instead of output transforms the way we work and live. (45:37)

Our most common workplace defenses, busyness, perfectionism, or disappearing, are all forms of fear. (48:34)

Every leader needs both masculine and feminine energy: strength to act, sensitivity to feel. (49:46)

RESOURCES:

My Substack channel (paid subscription option): https://mackfogelson.substack.com/ My Ways of Being training (Feb 25+26, 2025): https://mackfogelson.com/offerings/dare-to-lead-training/ Website: https://mackfogelson.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mackenziefogelson/