Science Friday Why The Bassist From Phish Is Funding Research Into ‘Flow State’
Nov 12, 2025
Mike Gordon, bassist of the iconic jam band Phish, is delving into the science of 'flow'—those magical moments when musicians and audiences unite. Alongside Dr. Greg Appelbaum, a neuroscientist at UC San Diego, they explore how flow affects musical creativity and performance. They discuss using brain signals to study flow, draw parallels with athletic experiences, and even create biofeedback tools like Zenbox. Listen in as they reveal how measuring brainwaves can enhance the musical experience.
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Describing The Band 'Hooking Up'
- Mike Gordon describes peak jams as moments when the band is "hooking up," a private, transcendent musical conversation.
- He says these moments feel like dream states and are deeply personal and different for each band member.
Bathtub Gin As A Flow Example
- Mike walks through a Bathtub Gin jam migrating chords and changing textures as the band pursues a dreamlike state.
- He emphasizes playing to get into the dream state, not to impress or perform technically.
Triangulating Flow Behavior
- Greg Appelbaum uses a three-pronged behavioral approach to label flow moments: audience, performer, and producer cues.
- He then correlates those labeled moments with brain data to find patterns linked to flow.