#202 Zackonomics and the budget with Phil Armstrong (part 1)

Nov 14, 2025

54:45

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(Part 1) Patricia and Christian talk to Dr Phil Armstrong about the upcoming UK budget, and Green Party leader Zack Polanski's positive views of MMT.

Full conversation here: https://www.patreon.com/posts/142975558

Please help sustain this podcast!

Patrons get early access to all episodes and patron-only episodes: https://www.patreon.com/MMTpodcast

All our episodes in chronological order: https://www.patreon.com/posts/43111643

All our patron-only episodes: https://www.patreon.com/posts/57542767

LIVE EVENT!

Scotland's Festival of Economics (Edinburgh and online)

19th - 21st March 2026: https://www.scoteconfest.org/#learnmore

JOIN PATRICIA'S MMT ACTIVIST NETWORK (MMT UK): https://actionnetwork.org/forms/activist-registration-form

JOIN THE MMT UK DISCORD SERVER TO CONNECT WITH OTHERS LOOKING TO PROMOTE MMT AND ECOLOGICAL ECONOMICS IN THE UK!: https://discord.gg/S3UbxFe4FR

MMT: THE MOVIE!

"Finding The Money", a documentary by Maren Poitras featuring Stephanie Kelton is now available worldwide to rent or buy: https://findingthemoney.vhx.tv/products/finding-the-money
Updates on worldwide screenings of "Finding The Money" can be found here: https://findingmoneyfilm.com/where-to-watch/
To arrange a screening of "Finding The Money", apply here: https://findingmoneyfilm.com/host-a-screening/

STUDY THE ECONOMICS OF SUSTAINABILITY!

Details of Modern Money Lab's online graduate, postgraduate and standalone courses in economics are here: https://modernmoneylab.org.au/

Relevant to this episode:

"Universal Basic Income or a Job Guarantee?" The Gower Initiative for Modern Money Studies: https://gimms.org.uk/fact-sheets/universal-basic-income/
"Comparing Post-Keynesianism and Modern Monetary Theory: The Importance of Ontology and Sociology" (2025) By Neil Wilson and Phil Armstrong: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=5337254
"Should we favour a Job Guarantee over a Universal Basic Income as a means of achieving a more socially just society?" by Catherine Armstrong: https://gimms.org.uk/2023/07/08/should-we-favour-a-job-guarantee-over-a-universal-basic-income-as-a-means-of-achieving-a-more-socially-just-society/
For more on the endogenous money view (the non-fringe, very mainstream view that bank loans create deposits, not the other way around), listen to episode 126 - Dirk Ehnts: How Banks Create Money: https://www.patreon.com/posts/62603318 and episode 43 - Sam Levey: Understanding Endogenous Money: https://www.patreon.com/posts/35073683
Order the Gower Initiative's "Modern Monetary Theory - Key Insights, Leading Thinkers": https://www.e-elgar.com/shop/gbp/modern-monetary-theory-9781802208085.html
For more on the (Liz) Trussageddon, listen to Episode 147 - Dirk Ehnts: Do Markets Control Our Politics?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/episode-147-dirk-72906421
"How to Fight Back Against the False Idea that the Government is at the Mercy of Financial Markets" by Sheridan Kates: https://thealternative.org.uk/dailyalternative/2025/3/10/scotonomics-monetary-autonomy
"There is no need to issue public debt" by Bill Mitchell: https://billmitchell.org/blog/?p=31715
Episode 148 - Pavlina Tcherneva: Why The Job Guarantee Is Core To Modern Monetary Theory: https://www.patreon.com/posts/episode-148-why-73211346
Quick read: Pavlina Tcherneva's Job Guarantee FAQ page: https://pavlina-tcherneva.net/job-guarantee-faq/

For an intro to MMT:

Our first three episodes: https://www.patreon.com/posts/41742417
Episode 126 - Dirk Ehnts: How Banks Create Money: https://www.patreon.com/posts/62603318

Quick MMT reads:

Warren's Mosler's MMT white paper: http://moslereconomics.com/mmt-white-paper/
Steven Hail's quick MMT explainer: https://theconversation.com/explainer-what-is-modern-monetary-theory-72095
Quick explanation of government debt and deficit: "Some Numbers Are Big. Let Me Help You Get Over It": https://christreilly.com/2020/02/17/some-numbers-are-big-let-me-help-you-get-over-it/

For a short, non-technical, free ebook explaining MMT, download Warren Mosler's "7 Deadly Innocent Frauds Of Economic Policy" here: http://moslereconomics.com/wp-content/powerpoints/7DIF.pdf

Episodes on monetary operations:

Episode 20 - Warren Mosler: The MMT Money Story (part 1): https://www.patreon.com/posts/28004824
Episode 126 - Dirk Ehnts: How Banks Create Money: https://www.patreon.com/posts/62603318
Episode 13 - Steven Hail: Everything You Always Wanted To Know About Banking, But Were Afraid To Ask: https://www.patreon.com/posts/41790887
Episode 43 - Sam Levey: Understanding Endogenous Money: https://www.patreon.com/posts/35073683
Episode 84 - Andrew Berkeley, Richard Tye & Neil Wilson: An Accounting Model Of The UK Exchequer (Part 1): https://www.patreon.com/posts/46352183
Episode 86 - Andrew Berkeley, Richard Tye & Neil Wilson: An Accounting Model Of The UK Exchequer (Part 2): https://www.patreon.com/posts/46865929

For more on Quantitative Easing:

Episode 59 - Warren Mosler: What Do Central Banks Do?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/39070023
Episode 143 - Paul Sheard: What Is Quantitative Easing?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/71589989?pr=true

Episodes on inflation:

Episode 7: Steven Hail: Inflation, Price Shocks and Other Misunderstandings: https://www.patreon.com/posts/41780508
Episode 65 - Phil Armstrong: Understanding Inflation: https://www.patreon.com/posts/40672678
Episode 104 - John T Harvey: Inflation, Stagflation & Healing The Nation: https://www.patreon.com/posts/52207835
Episode 123 - Warren Mosler: Understanding The Price Level And Inflation: https://www.patreon.com/posts/59856379
Episode 128 - L. Randall Wray & Yeva Nersisyan: What's Causing Accelerating Inflation? Pandemic Or Policy Response?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/63776558

Our Job Guarantee episodes:

Episode 4 - Fadhel Kaboub: What is the Job Guarantee?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/41742701
Episode 47 - Pavlina Tcherneva: Building Resilience - The Case For A Job Guarantee: https://www.patreon.com/posts/36034543
Episode 148 - Pavlina Tcherneva: Why The Job Guarantee Is Core To Modern Monetary Theory: https://www.patreon.com/posts/episode-148-why-73211346
Quick read: Pavlina Tcherneva's Job Guarantee FAQ page: https://pavlina-tcherneva.net/job-guarantee-faq/

More on government bonds (and "vigilantes"):

Episode 30 - Steven Hail: Understanding Government Bonds (Part 1):https://www.patreon.com/posts/29621245
Episode 31 - Steven Hail: Understanding Government Bonds (Part 2): https://www.patreon.com/posts/29829500
Episode 143 - Paul Sheard: What Is Quantitative Easing?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/71589989?pr=true
Episode 147 - Dirk Ehnts: Do Markets Control Our Politics?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/episode-147-dirk-72906421
Episode 144 - Warren Mosler: The Natural Rate Of Interest Is Zero: https://www.patreon.com/posts/71966513
Episode 145 - John T Harvey: What Determines Currency Prices?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/72283811?pr=true