The MMT Podcast with Patricia Pino & Christian Reilly

Patricia & Christian talk to economist Dr Sam Levey about films set in the world of finance, including Trading Places, The Big Short, The Wolf Of Wall Street, Boiler Room and Inside Job. (Conversation recorded in 2023). Please help sustain this podcast! Patrons get early access to all episodes and patron-only episodes: https://www.patreon.com/MMTpodcast LIVE EVENT! THE FAUXBEL PRIZE IN ECONOMICS 2026 🏆 Join Patricia Pino, Christian Reilly and Dr Phil Armstrong for a live version of the MMT Podcast where the audience will vote for their least-favourite talking points in economics discourse. Sat 21st March 2026, Leith, Edinburgh: https://www.tickettailor.com/events/scotlandseconomicsfestival/1913315 ONLINE EVENTS! Get tickets for Modern Money Lab's free online lecture series coming up in January 2026: https://events.humanitix.com/economics-of-sustainability-2026-lecture-series ========= Description: What can Trading Places teach us about commodities markets? How accurate is The Big Short's portrayal of the 2008 financial crisis? In this entertaining and educational episode, Patricia and Christian welcome back MMT scholar Dr. Sam Levey to explore the intersection of Hollywood and high finance. The conversation begins with the 1983 classic Trading Places, using this comedic masterpiece (starring Eddie Murphy and Dan Aykroyd) as a springboard to understand commodities broking, short selling, and the mechanics of futures markets. Sam expertly breaks down complex financial concepts like margin calls, leverage, and the bandwagon effect, showing how the film's climactic orange juice trading sequence actually demonstrates sophisticated economic principles. The discussion then shifts to examine how the culture of finance has evolved from the gentleman's club atmosphere depicted in older films to the more aggressive, deregulated environment shown in movies like The Big Short and Wolf of Wall Street. Sam traces this transformation to the rise of shareholder primacy doctrine in the 1970s and 1980s, connecting Milton Friedman's ideas about corporate responsibility to the toxic trading floor cultures that emerged. The hosts and Sam delve deep into the causes of the 2008 financial crisis, moving beyond simple explanations to explore systemic failures in business models, widespread fraud, and the role of deregulation. Patricia offers valuable insights about how the apparent prosperity of the 1990s was built on unsustainable credit expansion, whilst Sam discusses the work of his professor Bill Black on financial fraud and control fraud. Throughout the episode, the conversation weaves between entertainment and education, using cinema as a lens to understand real economic phenomena. The discussion touches on Modern Monetary Theory concepts, particularly around private sector deficits and the role of government spending in economic stability. This episode brilliantly demonstrates how popular culture shapes our understanding of complex economic systems, whilst providing listeners with the analytical tools to distinguish between Hollywood drama and economic reality. ======== Episode Summary MMT scholar Dr. Sam Levey returns to decode Hollywood's portrayal of finance, from the 1983 comedy Trading Places to the 2008 crisis drama The Big Short. This entertaining discussion uses cinema as a window into real financial markets, exploring everything from commodities trading to systemic fraud. Key Topics & Timestamps Trading Places Analysis [00:00] Introduction and guest welcome [05:30] What commodities brokers actually do [12:15] Understanding short selling mechanics [18:45] Futures markets and derivatives [25:20] The bandwagon effect in trading [32:10] Margin calls and leverage explained Financial Culture Evolution [38:45] From gentleman's clubs to trading floor debauchery [42:30] Milton Friedman and shareholder primacy [47:15] Executive compensation changes since the 1970s The Big Short and 2008 Crisis [55:20] Causes of the Great Financial Crisis [62:40] Deregulation and fraud (Bill Black's work) [68:15] Systemic failure vs individual bad actors [75:30] Credit expansion and apparent prosperity References Mentioned Trading Places (1983) The Big Short (2015) Bill Black: "The Best Way to Rob a Bank is to Own One" Milton Friedman on corporate social responsibility James Tobin: "On the Efficiency of the Financial System" (1984) Glass-Steagall Act and its repeal Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act Guest Bio Dr. Sam Levey is an MMT scholar, writer, and teacher who, at the time of recording (2023) had recently completed his PhD dissertation on mobilisation theory. His work focuses on the intersection of economics, policy, and institutional analysis. Key Takeaways Hollywood as Economic Education: Films like Trading Places can effectively illustrate complex financial concepts when properly analysed Cultural Shift in Finance: The move from relationship-based to transaction-based finance culture reflects broader economic changes since the 1970s Systemic vs Individual Failure: The 2008 crisis represented a failure of entire business models, not just individual bad actors The Role of Fraud: Financial fraud thrives in toxic workplace cultures that dehumanise customers and workers Credit and Apparent Prosperity: Much of the economic growth of recent decades has been built on unsustainable private debt expansion ========= All our episodes in chronological order: https://www.patreon.com/posts/43111643 All our patron-only episodes: https://www.patreon.com/posts/57542767 Relevant to this episode: All our episodes with Sam Levey: https://www.patreon.com/posts/43189679 Sam on Twitter: https://twitter.com/SamHLevey Sam on Medium: https://slevey087.medium.com/ In this episode, Sam makes a case for the MMT Job Guarantee, for more on that see our Job Guarantee episodes (below) and this episode with Sam is a great introduction - Episode 125 - Monopoly, Monopsony, And What To Do About Them: https://www.patreon.com/posts/61954971 For an intro to MMT: Our first three episodes: https://www.patreon.com/posts/41742417 Episode 126 - Dirk Ehnts: How Banks Create Money: https://www.patreon.com/posts/62603318 Quick MMT reads: Warren's Mosler's MMT white paper: http://moslereconomics.com/mmt-white-paper/ Steven Hail's quick MMT explainer: https://theconversation.com/explainer-what-is-modern-monetary-theory-72095 Quick explanation of government debt and deficit: "Some Numbers Are Big. Let Me Help You Get Over It": https://christreilly.com/2020/02/17/some-numbers-are-big-let-me-help-you-get-over-it/ For a short, non-technical, free ebook explaining MMT, download Warren Mosler's "7 Deadly Innocent Frauds Of Economic Policy" here: http://moslereconomics.com/wp-content/powerpoints/7DIF.pdf Episodes on monetary operations: Episode 20 - Warren Mosler: The MMT Money Story (part 1): https://www.patreon.com/posts/28004824 Episode 126 - Dirk Ehnts: How Banks Create Money: https://www.patreon.com/posts/62603318 Episode 13 - Steven Hail: Everything You Always Wanted To Know About Banking, But Were Afraid To Ask: https://www.patreon.com/posts/41790887 Episode 43 - Sam Levey: Understanding Endogenous Money: https://www.patreon.com/posts/35073683 Episode 84 - Andrew Berkeley, Richard Tye & Neil Wilson: An Accounting Model Of The UK Exchequer (Part 1): https://www.patreon.com/posts/46352183 Episode 86 - Andrew Berkeley, Richard Tye & Neil Wilson: An Accounting Model Of The UK Exchequer (Part 2): https://www.patreon.com/posts/46865929 Episodes on inflation: Episode 7: Steven Hail: Inflation, Price Shocks and Other Misunderstandings: https://www.patreon.com/posts/41780508 Episode 65 - Phil Armstrong: Understanding Inflation: https://www.patreon.com/posts/40672678 Episode 104 - John T Harvey: Inflation, Stagflation & Healing The Nation: https://www.patreon.com/posts/52207835 Episode 123 - Warren Mosler: Understanding The Price Level And Inflation: https://www.patreon.com/posts/59856379 Episode 128 - L. Randall Wray & Yeva Nersisyan: What's Causing Accelerating Inflation? Pandemic Or Policy Response?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/63776558 Our Job Guarantee episodes: Episode 4 - Fadhel Kaboub: What is the Job Guarantee?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/41742701 Episode 47 - Pavlina Tcherneva: Building Resilience - The Case For A Job Guarantee: https://www.patreon.com/posts/36034543 Episode 148 - Pavlina Tcherneva: Why The Job Guarantee Is Core To Modern Monetary Theory: https://www.patreon.com/posts/episode-148-why-73211346 Quick read: Pavlina Tcherneva's Job Guarantee FAQ page: https://pavlina-tcherneva.net/job-guarantee-faq/ More on government bonds (and "vigilantes"): Episode 30 - Steven Hail: Understanding Government Bonds (Part 1):https://www.patreon.com/posts/29621245 Episode 31 - Steven Hail: Understanding Government Bonds (Part 2): https://www.patreon.com/posts/29829500 Episode 143 - Paul Sheard: What Is Quantitative Easing?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/71589989?pr=true Episode 147 - Dirk Ehnts: Do Markets Control Our Politics?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/episode-147-dirk-72906421 Episode 144 - Warren Mosler: The Natural Rate Of Interest Is Zero: https://www.patreon.com/posts/71966513 Episode 145 - John T Harvey: What Determines Currency Prices?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/72283811?pr=true More on Silicon Valley Bank and bank runs: Episode 162 - Warren Mosler: Anatomy Of A Bank Run: https://www.patreon.com/posts/80157783?pr=true Episode 163 - L. Randall Wray: Breaking Banks - The Fed's Magical Monetarist Thinking Strikes Again: https://www.patreon.com/posts/80479169?pr=true Episode 165 - Robert Hockett: Sparking An Industrial Renewal By Building Banks Better: https://www.patreon.com/posts/81084983?pr=true MMT founder Warren Mosler's Proposals for the Treasury, the Federal Reserve, the FDIC, and the Banking System: https://neweconomicperspectives.org/2010/02/warren-moslers-proposals-for-treasury.html MMT Courses: Details of Modern Money Lab's online graduate and postgraduate courses in MMT are here: https://modernmoneylab.org.au/ MMT Academic Resources compiled by The Gower Initiative for Modern Money Studies: https://www.zotero.org/groups/2251544/mmt_academic_resources_-_compiled_by_the_gower_initiative_for_modern_money_studies MMT scholarship compiled by New Economic Perspectives: http://neweconomicperspectives.org/mmt-scholarship A list of MMT-informed campaigns and organisations worldwide: https://www.patreon.com/posts/47900757 We are working towards full transcripts, but in the meantime, closed captions for all episodes are available on our YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEp_nGVTuMfBun2wiG-c0Ew/videos Show notes: https://www.patreon.com/posts/146366375?pr=true

Patricia and Christian talk to Professor Steven Hail about some of the tricky questions progressive leaders and activists are facing. The conversation explores Zack Polanski's bold media messaging, bond market myths, and the historic opportunity for MMT-informed politics in the UK. Please help sustain this podcast! Patrons get early access to all episodes and patron-only episodes: https://www.patreon.com/MMTpodcast LIVE EVENT! THE FAUXBEL PRIZE IN ECONOMICS 2026 🏆 Join Patricia Pino, Christian Reilly and Dr Phil Armstrong for a live version of the MMT Podcast where the audience will vote for their least-favourite talking points in economics discourse. Sat 21st March 2026, Leith, Edinburgh: https://www.tickettailor.com/events/scotlandseconomicsfestival/1913315 Podcast Description The Green Party's Zack Polanski has been making waves with his bold rejection of the household budget analogy for government spending. But if government budgets aren't like household budgets, what are they actually like? In this episode, economist Steven Hail returns to explore this fundamental question that sits at the heart of Modern Monetary Theory. The conversation begins with Polanski's media appearances and his courageous willingness to challenge orthodox economic narratives on national television. Christian and Patricia examine why this messaging resonates - it's both empirically true and intuitively correct that governments and households operate under fundamentally different constraints. Steven provides crucial context about the unprecedented nature of Polanski's public stance, comparing it to other MMT-informed politicians globally and explaining why the UK media backlash has been so fierce. The discussion reveals how currency-issuing governments like the UK create new money with every expenditure, rather than spending existing tax revenue. This leads to a deep exploration of government bond markets, with Steven dismantling the myth that governments are at the mercy of bond traders. The conversation addresses common fears about currency depreciation and inflation, with Patricia providing analysis on food imports and energy pricing. Steven argues that the UK's high degree of monetary sovereignty means exchange rate fluctuations pose manageable rather than catastrophic risks. The episode tackles criticism from figures like Paul Mason, revealing contradictions in mainstream left arguments about fiscal constraints. The trio discuss practical policy implications, from a Job Guarantee as an automatic stabiliser to the importance of detailed capacity analysis for government investment programmes. Throughout, they emphasise how MMT insights could inform genuinely transformative political change, with Steven suggesting the UK may be experiencing a historic political realignment that creates unprecedented opportunities for MMT-informed governance. =========== Key Topics with Timestamps [02:15] Government vs household spending: the mirror image concept [05:30] Why every government pound spent is a newly created pound [08:45] Zack Polanski's media strategy and establishment backlash [15:20] International comparison: MMT movements worldwide [22:10] Currency creation mechanics and tax/bond relationships [28:40] Addressing Paul Mason's critique of MMT [35:15] Exchange rate fears and monetary sovereignty [42:30] Food imports, energy pricing, and inflation pass-through [48:45] Fiscal rules and the job guarantee discussion [55:20] Project 2030: detailed policy development approach ========= Guest Bio Professor Steven Hail is an economist, author, and founder of Modern Money Lab. Based in Australia, he travels globally supporting MMT education and policy development. Key Takeaways Government spending always creates new money - it's not a choice between spending taxes or creating money Bond markets serve investors, not governments - pension funds need bonds more than governments need to issue them UK monetary sovereignty provides resilience - exchange rate fluctuations are manageable, not catastrophic Political opportunity is unprecedented - both major UK parties may be collapsing simultaneously Detailed policy frameworks matter - MMT insights must be coupled with sophisticated capacity analysis =============== All our episodes in chronological order: https://www.patreon.com/posts/43111643 All our patron-only episodes: https://www.patreon.com/posts/57542767 Scotland's Festival of Economics (Edinburgh and online) 19th - 21st March 2026: https://www.scoteconfest.org/#learnmore JOIN PATRICIA'S MMT ACTIVIST NETWORK (MMT UK): https://actionnetwork.org/forms/activist-registration-form Join the MMT UK Discord server to connect with others looking to promote MMT and ecological economics in the UK!: https://discord.gg/S3UbxFe4FR MMT: THE MOVIE! "Finding The Money", a documentary by Maren Poitras featuring Stephanie Kelton is now available worldwide to rent or buy: https://findingthemoney.vhx.tv/products/finding-the-money Updates on worldwide screenings of "Finding The Money" can be found here: https://findingmoneyfilm.com/where-to-watch/ To arrange a screening of "Finding The Money", apply here: https://findingmoneyfilm.com/host-a-screening/ STUDY THE ECONOMICS OF SUSTAINABILITY! Details of Modern Money Lab's online graduate, postgraduate and standalone courses in economics are here: https://modernmoneylab.org.au/ Relevant to this episode: Get tickets for Modern Money Lab's free online lecture series coming up in January 2026: https://events.humanitix.com/economics-of-sustainability-2026-lecture-series "The self-financing state: An institutional analysis of government expenditure, revenue collection and debt issuance operations in the United Kingdom" (Berkeley et al, 2022): https://www.ucl.ac.uk/bartlett/sites/bartlett/files/the_self-financing_state_an_institutional_analysis_of_government_expenditure_revenue_collection_and_debt_issuance_operations_in_the_united_kingdom.pdf For more on the (Liz) Trussageddon, listen to Episode 147 - Dirk Ehnts: Do Markets Control Our Politics?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/episode-147-dirk-72906421 "How to Fight Back Against the False Idea that the Government is at the Mercy of Financial Markets" by Sheridan Kates: https://thealternative.org.uk/dailyalternative/2025/3/10/scotonomics-monetary-autonomy "There is no need to issue public debt" by Bill Mitchell: https://billmitchell.org/blog/?p=31715 Episode 148 - Pavlina Tcherneva: Why The Job Guarantee Is Core To Modern Monetary Theory: https://www.patreon.com/posts/episode-148-why-73211346 Quick read: Pavlina Tcherneva's Job Guarantee FAQ page: https://pavlina-tcherneva.net/job-guarantee-faq/ Episode 30 - Steven Hail: Understanding Government Bonds (Part 1) :https://www.patreon.com/posts/29621245 Episode 31 - Steven Hail: Understanding Government Bonds (Part 2): https://www.patreon.com/posts/29829500 "Federal Debt and Modern Money" by Steven Hail & David Joy: https://www.global-isp.org/wp-content/uploads/PN-121.pdf "Is exchange rate depreciation inflationary?" by Bill Mitchell: https://billmitchell.org/blog/?p=32922 For an intro to MMT: Our first three episodes: https://www.patreon.com/posts/41742417 Episode 126 - Dirk Ehnts: How Banks Create Money: https://www.patreon.com/posts/62603318 Quick MMT reads: Warren's Mosler's MMT white paper: http://moslereconomics.com/mmt-white-paper/ Steven Hail's quick MMT explainer: https://theconversation.com/explainer-what-is-modern-monetary-theory-72095 Quick explanation of government debt and deficit: "Some Numbers Are Big. Let Me Help You Get Over It": https://christreilly.com/2020/02/17/some-numbers-are-big-let-me-help-you-get-over-it/ For a short, non-technical, free ebook explaining MMT, download Warren Mosler's "7 Deadly Innocent Frauds Of Economic Policy" here: http://moslereconomics.com/wp-content/powerpoints/7DIF.pdf Episodes on monetary operations: Episode 20 - Warren Mosler: The MMT Money Story (part 1): https://www.patreon.com/posts/28004824 Episode 126 - Dirk Ehnts: How Banks Create Money: https://www.patreon.com/posts/62603318 Episode 13 - Steven Hail: Everything You Always Wanted To Know About Banking, But Were Afraid To Ask: https://www.patreon.com/posts/41790887 Episode 43 - Sam Levey: Understanding Endogenous Money: https://www.patreon.com/posts/35073683 Episode 84 - Andrew Berkeley, Richard Tye & Neil Wilson: An Accounting Model Of The UK Exchequer (Part 1): https://www.patreon.com/posts/46352183 Episode 86 - Andrew Berkeley, Richard Tye & Neil Wilson: An Accounting Model Of The UK Exchequer (Part 2): https://www.patreon.com/posts/46865929 For more on Quantitative Easing: Episode 59 - Warren Mosler: What Do Central Banks Do?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/39070023 Episode 143 - Paul Sheard: What Is Quantitative Easing?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/71589989?pr=true Episodes on inflation: Episode 7: Steven Hail: Inflation, Price Shocks and Other Misunderstandings: https://www.patreon.com/posts/41780508 Episode 65 - Phil Armstrong: Understanding Inflation: https://www.patreon.com/posts/40672678 Episode 104 - John T Harvey: Inflation, Stagflation & Healing The Nation: https://www.patreon.com/posts/52207835 Episode 123 - Warren Mosler: Understanding The Price Level And Inflation: https://www.patreon.com/posts/59856379 Episode 128 - L. Randall Wray & Yeva Nersisyan: What's Causing Accelerating Inflation? Pandemic Or Policy Response?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/63776558 Our Job Guarantee episodes: Episode 4 - Fadhel Kaboub: What is the Job Guarantee?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/41742701 Episode 47 - Pavlina Tcherneva: Building Resilience - The Case For A Job Guarantee: https://www.patreon.com/posts/36034543 Episode 148 - Pavlina Tcherneva: Why The Job Guarantee Is Core To Modern Monetary Theory: https://www.patreon.com/posts/episode-148-why-73211346 Quick read: Pavlina Tcherneva's Job Guarantee FAQ page: https://pavlina-tcherneva.net/job-guarantee-faq/ More on government bonds (and "vigilantes"): Episode 30 - Steven Hail: Understanding Government Bonds (Part 1):https://www.patreon.com/posts/29621245 Episode 31 - Steven Hail: Understanding Government Bonds (Part 2): https://www.patreon.com/posts/29829500 Episode 143 - Paul Sheard: What Is Quantitative Easing?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/71589989?pr=true Episode 147 - Dirk Ehnts: Do Markets Control Our Politics?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/episode-147-dirk-72906421 Episode 144 - Warren Mosler: The Natural Rate Of Interest Is Zero: https://www.patreon.com/posts/71966513 Episode 145 - John T Harvey: What Determines Currency Prices?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/72283811?pr=true More on bank runs banking regulation: Episode 162 - Warren Mosler: Anatomy Of A Bank Run: https://www.patreon.com/posts/80157783?pr=true Episode 163 - L. Randall Wray: Breaking Banks - The Fed's Magical Monetarist Thinking Strikes Again: https://www.patreon.com/posts/80479169?pr=true Episode 165 - Robert Hockett: Sparking An Industrial Renewal By Building Banks Better: https://www.patreon.com/posts/81084983?pr=true MMT founder Warren Mosler's Proposals for the Treasury, the Federal Reserve, the FDIC, and the Banking System: https://neweconomicperspectives.org/2010/02/warren-moslers-proposals-for-treasury.html MMT Events And Courses: More information about Professor Bill Mitchell's MMTed project (free public online courses in MMT) here: http://www.mmted.org/ Details of Modern Money Lab's online graduate and postgraduate courses in MMT and real-world economics are here: https://modernmoneylab.org.au/ Order the Gower Initiative's "Modern Monetary Theory - Key Insights, Leading Thinkers": https://www.e-elgar.com/shop/gbp/modern-monetary-theory-9781802208085.html MMT Academic Resources compiled by The Gower Initiative for Modern Money Studies: https://www.zotero.org/groups/2251544/mmt_academic_resources_-_compiled_by_the_gower_initiative_for_modern_money_studies MMT scholarship compiled by New Economic Perspectives: http://neweconomicperspectives.org/mmt-scholarship A list of MMT-informed campaigns and organisations worldwide: https://www.patreon.com/posts/47900757 We are working towards full transcripts, but in the meantime, closed captions for all episodes are available on our YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEp_nGVTuMfBun2wiG-c0Ew/videos Show notes: https://www.patreon.com/posts/146007869

Patricia and Christian talk to Professor Steven Hail about some of the tricky questions progressive leaders and activists are facing. The conversation explores Zack Polanski's bold media messaging, bond market myths, and the historic opportunity for MMT-informed politics in the UK. Please help sustain this podcast! Patrons get early access to all episodes and patron-only episodes: https://www.patreon.com/MMTpodcast LIVE EVENT! THE FAUXBEL PRIZE IN ECONOMICS 2026 🏆 Join Patricia Pino, Christian Reilly and Dr Phil Armstrong for a live version of the MMT Podcast where the audience will vote for their least-favourite talking points in economics discourse. Sat 21st March 2026, Leith, Edinburgh: https://www.tickettailor.com/events/scotlandseconomicsfestival/1913315 Podcast Description The Green Party's Zack Polanski has been making waves with his bold rejection of the household budget analogy for government spending. But if government budgets aren't like household budgets, what are they actually like? In this episode, economist Steven Hail returns to explore this fundamental question that sits at the heart of Modern Monetary Theory. The conversation begins with Polanski's media appearances and his courageous willingness to challenge orthodox economic narratives on national television. Christian and Patricia examine why this messaging resonates - it's both empirically true and intuitively correct that governments and households operate under fundamentally different constraints. Steven provides crucial context about the unprecedented nature of Polanski's public stance, comparing it to other MMT-informed politicians globally and explaining why the UK media backlash has been so fierce. The discussion reveals how currency-issuing governments like the UK create new money with every expenditure, rather than spending existing tax revenue. This leads to a deep exploration of government bond markets, with Steven dismantling the myth that governments are at the mercy of bond traders. The conversation addresses common fears about currency depreciation and inflation, with Patricia providing analysis on food imports and energy pricing. Steven argues that the UK's high degree of monetary sovereignty means exchange rate fluctuations pose manageable rather than catastrophic risks. The episode tackles criticism from figures like Paul Mason, revealing contradictions in mainstream left arguments about fiscal constraints. The trio discuss practical policy implications, from a Job Guarantee as an automatic stabiliser to the importance of detailed capacity analysis for government investment programmes. Throughout, they emphasise how MMT insights could inform genuinely transformative political change, with Steven suggesting the UK may be experiencing a historic political realignment that creates unprecedented opportunities for MMT-informed governance. =========== Key Topics with Timestamps [02:15] Government vs household spending: the mirror image concept [05:30] Why every government pound spent is a newly created pound [08:45] Zack Polanski's media strategy and establishment backlash [15:20] International comparison: MMT movements worldwide [22:10] Currency creation mechanics and tax/bond relationships [28:40] Addressing Paul Mason's critique of MMT [35:15] Exchange rate fears and monetary sovereignty [42:30] Food imports, energy pricing, and inflation pass-through [48:45] Fiscal rules and the job guarantee discussion [55:20] Project 2030: detailed policy development approach ========= Guest Bio Professor Steven Hail is an economist, author, and founder of Modern Money Lab. Based in Australia, he travels globally supporting MMT education and policy development. Key Takeaways Government spending always creates new money - it's not a choice between spending taxes or creating money Bond markets serve investors, not governments - pension funds need bonds more than governments need to issue them UK monetary sovereignty provides resilience - exchange rate fluctuations are manageable, not catastrophic Political opportunity is unprecedented - both major UK parties may be collapsing simultaneously Detailed policy frameworks matter - MMT insights must be coupled with sophisticated capacity analysis =============== All our episodes in chronological order: https://www.patreon.com/posts/43111643 All our patron-only episodes: https://www.patreon.com/posts/57542767 Scotland's Festival of Economics (Edinburgh and online) 19th - 21st March 2026: https://www.scoteconfest.org/#learnmore JOIN PATRICIA'S MMT ACTIVIST NETWORK (MMT UK): https://actionnetwork.org/forms/activist-registration-form Join the MMT UK Discord server to connect with others looking to promote MMT and ecological economics in the UK!: https://discord.gg/S3UbxFe4FR MMT: THE MOVIE! "Finding The Money", a documentary by Maren Poitras featuring Stephanie Kelton is now available worldwide to rent or buy: https://findingthemoney.vhx.tv/products/finding-the-money Updates on worldwide screenings of "Finding The Money" can be found here: https://findingmoneyfilm.com/where-to-watch/ To arrange a screening of "Finding The Money", apply here: https://findingmoneyfilm.com/host-a-screening/ STUDY THE ECONOMICS OF SUSTAINABILITY! Details of Modern Money Lab's online graduate, postgraduate and standalone courses in economics are here: https://modernmoneylab.org.au/ Relevant to this episode: Get tickets for Modern Money Lab's free online lecture series coming up in January 2026: https://events.humanitix.com/economics-of-sustainability-2026-lecture-series "The self-financing state: An institutional analysis of government expenditure, revenue collection and debt issuance operations in the United Kingdom" (Berkeley et al, 2022): https://www.ucl.ac.uk/bartlett/sites/bartlett/files/the_self-financing_state_an_institutional_analysis_of_government_expenditure_revenue_collection_and_debt_issuance_operations_in_the_united_kingdom.pdf For more on the (Liz) Trussageddon, listen to Episode 147 - Dirk Ehnts: Do Markets Control Our Politics?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/episode-147-dirk-72906421 "How to Fight Back Against the False Idea that the Government is at the Mercy of Financial Markets" by Sheridan Kates: https://thealternative.org.uk/dailyalternative/2025/3/10/scotonomics-monetary-autonomy "There is no need to issue public debt" by Bill Mitchell: https://billmitchell.org/blog/?p=31715 Episode 148 - Pavlina Tcherneva: Why The Job Guarantee Is Core To Modern Monetary Theory: https://www.patreon.com/posts/episode-148-why-73211346 Quick read: Pavlina Tcherneva's Job Guarantee FAQ page: https://pavlina-tcherneva.net/job-guarantee-faq/ Episode 30 - Steven Hail: Understanding Government Bonds (Part 1) :https://www.patreon.com/posts/29621245 Episode 31 - Steven Hail: Understanding Government Bonds (Part 2): https://www.patreon.com/posts/29829500 "Federal Debt and Modern Money" by Steven Hail & David Joy: https://www.global-isp.org/wp-content/uploads/PN-121.pdf "Is exchange rate depreciation inflationary?" by Bill Mitchell: https://billmitchell.org/blog/?p=32922 For an intro to MMT: Our first three episodes: https://www.patreon.com/posts/41742417 Episode 126 - Dirk Ehnts: How Banks Create Money: https://www.patreon.com/posts/62603318 Quick MMT reads: Warren's Mosler's MMT white paper: http://moslereconomics.com/mmt-white-paper/ Steven Hail's quick MMT explainer: https://theconversation.com/explainer-what-is-modern-monetary-theory-72095 Quick explanation of government debt and deficit: "Some Numbers Are Big. Let Me Help You Get Over It": https://christreilly.com/2020/02/17/some-numbers-are-big-let-me-help-you-get-over-it/ For a short, non-technical, free ebook explaining MMT, download Warren Mosler's "7 Deadly Innocent Frauds Of Economic Policy" here: http://moslereconomics.com/wp-content/powerpoints/7DIF.pdf Episodes on monetary operations: Episode 20 - Warren Mosler: The MMT Money Story (part 1): https://www.patreon.com/posts/28004824 Episode 126 - Dirk Ehnts: How Banks Create Money: https://www.patreon.com/posts/62603318 Episode 13 - Steven Hail: Everything You Always Wanted To Know About Banking, But Were Afraid To Ask: https://www.patreon.com/posts/41790887 Episode 43 - Sam Levey: Understanding Endogenous Money: https://www.patreon.com/posts/35073683 Episode 84 - Andrew Berkeley, Richard Tye & Neil Wilson: An Accounting Model Of The UK Exchequer (Part 1): https://www.patreon.com/posts/46352183 Episode 86 - Andrew Berkeley, Richard Tye & Neil Wilson: An Accounting Model Of The UK Exchequer (Part 2): https://www.patreon.com/posts/46865929 For more on Quantitative Easing: Episode 59 - Warren Mosler: What Do Central Banks Do?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/39070023 Episode 143 - Paul Sheard: What Is Quantitative Easing?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/71589989?pr=true Episodes on inflation: Episode 7: Steven Hail: Inflation, Price Shocks and Other Misunderstandings: https://www.patreon.com/posts/41780508 Episode 65 - Phil Armstrong: Understanding Inflation: https://www.patreon.com/posts/40672678 Episode 104 - John T Harvey: Inflation, Stagflation & Healing The Nation: https://www.patreon.com/posts/52207835 Episode 123 - Warren Mosler: Understanding The Price Level And Inflation: https://www.patreon.com/posts/59856379 Episode 128 - L. Randall Wray & Yeva Nersisyan: What's Causing Accelerating Inflation? Pandemic Or Policy Response?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/63776558 Our Job Guarantee episodes: Episode 4 - Fadhel Kaboub: What is the Job Guarantee?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/41742701 Episode 47 - Pavlina Tcherneva: Building Resilience - The Case For A Job Guarantee: https://www.patreon.com/posts/36034543 Episode 148 - Pavlina Tcherneva: Why The Job Guarantee Is Core To Modern Monetary Theory: https://www.patreon.com/posts/episode-148-why-73211346 Quick read: Pavlina Tcherneva's Job Guarantee FAQ page: https://pavlina-tcherneva.net/job-guarantee-faq/ More on government bonds (and "vigilantes"): Episode 30 - Steven Hail: Understanding Government Bonds (Part 1):https://www.patreon.com/posts/29621245 Episode 31 - Steven Hail: Understanding Government Bonds (Part 2): https://www.patreon.com/posts/29829500 Episode 143 - Paul Sheard: What Is Quantitative Easing?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/71589989?pr=true Episode 147 - Dirk Ehnts: Do Markets Control Our Politics?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/episode-147-dirk-72906421 Episode 144 - Warren Mosler: The Natural Rate Of Interest Is Zero: https://www.patreon.com/posts/71966513 Episode 145 - John T Harvey: What Determines Currency Prices?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/72283811?pr=true More on bank runs banking regulation: Episode 162 - Warren Mosler: Anatomy Of A Bank Run: https://www.patreon.com/posts/80157783?pr=true Episode 163 - L. Randall Wray: Breaking Banks - The Fed's Magical Monetarist Thinking Strikes Again: https://www.patreon.com/posts/80479169?pr=true Episode 165 - Robert Hockett: Sparking An Industrial Renewal By Building Banks Better: https://www.patreon.com/posts/81084983?pr=true MMT founder Warren Mosler's Proposals for the Treasury, the Federal Reserve, the FDIC, and the Banking System: https://neweconomicperspectives.org/2010/02/warren-moslers-proposals-for-treasury.html MMT Events And Courses: More information about Professor Bill Mitchell's MMTed project (free public online courses in MMT) here: http://www.mmted.org/ Details of Modern Money Lab's online graduate and postgraduate courses in MMT and real-world economics are here: https://modernmoneylab.org.au/ Order the Gower Initiative's "Modern Monetary Theory - Key Insights, Leading Thinkers": https://www.e-elgar.com/shop/gbp/modern-monetary-theory-9781802208085.html MMT Academic Resources compiled by The Gower Initiative for Modern Money Studies: https://www.zotero.org/groups/2251544/mmt_academic_resources_-_compiled_by_the_gower_initiative_for_modern_money_studies MMT scholarship compiled by New Economic Perspectives: http://neweconomicperspectives.org/mmt-scholarship A list of MMT-informed campaigns and organisations worldwide: https://www.patreon.com/posts/47900757 We are working towards full transcripts, but in the meantime, closed captions for all episodes are available on our YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEp_nGVTuMfBun2wiG-c0Ew/videos Show notes: https://www.patreon.com/posts/146007869

(Part 2) Patricia and Christian talk to Dr Phil Armstrong about the upcoming UK budget, and Green Party leader Zack Polanski's positive views of MMT. Full conversation here: https://www.patreon.com/posts/142975558 Please help sustain this podcast! Patrons get early access to all episodes and patron-only episodes: https://www.patreon.com/MMTpodcast All our episodes in chronological order: https://www.patreon.com/posts/43111643 All our patron-only episodes: https://www.patreon.com/posts/57542767 LIVE EVENT! THE FAUXBEL PRIZE IN ECONOMICS 2026 🏆 Join Patricia Pino, Christian Reilly and Dr Phil Armstrong for a live version of the MMT Podcast where the audience will vote for their least-favourite talking points in economics discourse. Sat 21st March 2026, Leith, Edinburgh: https://www.tickettailor.com/events/scotlandseconomicsfestival/1913315 Part of Scotland's Festival of Economics (Edinburgh and online) 19th - 21st March 2026: https://www.scoteconfest.org/#learnmore JOIN PATRICIA'S MMT ACTIVIST NETWORK (MMT UK): https://actionnetwork.org/forms/activist-registration-form Join the MMT UK Discord server to connect with others looking to promote MMT and ecological economics in the UK!: https://discord.gg/S3UbxFe4FR MMT: THE MOVIE! "Finding The Money", a documentary by Maren Poitras featuring Stephanie Kelton is now available worldwide to rent or buy: https://findingthemoney.vhx.tv/products/finding-the-money Updates on worldwide screenings of "Finding The Money" can be found here: https://findingmoneyfilm.com/where-to-watch/ To arrange a screening of "Finding The Money", apply here: https://findingmoneyfilm.com/host-a-screening/ STUDY THE ECONOMICS OF SUSTAINABILITY! Details of Modern Money Lab's online graduate, postgraduate and standalone courses in economics are here: https://modernmoneylab.org.au/ Relevant to this episode: "Universal Basic Income or a Job Guarantee?" The Gower Initiative for Modern Money Studies: https://gimms.org.uk/fact-sheets/universal-basic-income/ "Comparing Post-Keynesianism and Modern Monetary Theory: The Importance of Ontology and Sociology" (2025) By Neil Wilson and Phil Armstrong: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=5337254 "Should we favour a Job Guarantee over a Universal Basic Income as a means of achieving a more socially just society?" by Catherine Armstrong: https://gimms.org.uk/2023/07/08/should-we-favour-a-job-guarantee-over-a-universal-basic-income-as-a-means-of-achieving-a-more-socially-just-society/ For more on the endogenous money view (the non-fringe, very mainstream view that bank loans create deposits, not the other way around), listen to episode 126 - Dirk Ehnts: How Banks Create Money: https://www.patreon.com/posts/62603318 and episode 43 - Sam Levey: Understanding Endogenous Money: https://www.patreon.com/posts/35073683 Order the Gower Initiative's "Modern Monetary Theory - Key Insights, Leading Thinkers": https://www.e-elgar.com/shop/gbp/modern-monetary-theory-9781802208085.html For more on the (Liz) Trussageddon, listen to Episode 147 - Dirk Ehnts: Do Markets Control Our Politics?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/episode-147-dirk-72906421 "How to Fight Back Against the False Idea that the Government is at the Mercy of Financial Markets" by Sheridan Kates: https://thealternative.org.uk/dailyalternative/2025/3/10/scotonomics-monetary-autonomy "There is no need to issue public debt" by Bill Mitchell: https://billmitchell.org/blog/?p=31715 Episode 148 - Pavlina Tcherneva: Why The Job Guarantee Is Core To Modern Monetary Theory: https://www.patreon.com/posts/episode-148-why-73211346 Quick read: Pavlina Tcherneva's Job Guarantee FAQ page: https://pavlina-tcherneva.net/job-guarantee-faq/ For an intro to MMT: Our first three episodes: https://www.patreon.com/posts/41742417 Episode 126 - Dirk Ehnts: How Banks Create Money: https://www.patreon.com/posts/62603318 Quick MMT reads: Warren's Mosler's MMT white paper: http://moslereconomics.com/mmt-white-paper/ Steven Hail's quick MMT explainer: https://theconversation.com/explainer-what-is-modern-monetary-theory-72095 Quick explanation of government debt and deficit: "Some Numbers Are Big. Let Me Help You Get Over It": https://christreilly.com/2020/02/17/some-numbers-are-big-let-me-help-you-get-over-it/ For a short, non-technical, free ebook explaining MMT, download Warren Mosler's "7 Deadly Innocent Frauds Of Economic Policy" here: http://moslereconomics.com/wp-content/powerpoints/7DIF.pdf Episodes on monetary operations: Episode 20 - Warren Mosler: The MMT Money Story (part 1): https://www.patreon.com/posts/28004824 Episode 126 - Dirk Ehnts: How Banks Create Money: https://www.patreon.com/posts/62603318 Episode 13 - Steven Hail: Everything You Always Wanted To Know About Banking, But Were Afraid To Ask: https://www.patreon.com/posts/41790887 Episode 43 - Sam Levey: Understanding Endogenous Money: https://www.patreon.com/posts/35073683 Episode 84 - Andrew Berkeley, Richard Tye & Neil Wilson: An Accounting Model Of The UK Exchequer (Part 1): https://www.patreon.com/posts/46352183 Episode 86 - Andrew Berkeley, Richard Tye & Neil Wilson: An Accounting Model Of The UK Exchequer (Part 2): https://www.patreon.com/posts/46865929 For more on Quantitative Easing: Episode 59 - Warren Mosler: What Do Central Banks Do?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/39070023 Episode 143 - Paul Sheard: What Is Quantitative Easing?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/71589989?pr=true Episodes on inflation: Episode 7: Steven Hail: Inflation, Price Shocks and Other Misunderstandings: https://www.patreon.com/posts/41780508 Episode 65 - Phil Armstrong: Understanding Inflation: https://www.patreon.com/posts/40672678 Episode 104 - John T Harvey: Inflation, Stagflation & Healing The Nation: https://www.patreon.com/posts/52207835 Episode 123 - Warren Mosler: Understanding The Price Level And Inflation: https://www.patreon.com/posts/59856379 Episode 128 - L. Randall Wray & Yeva Nersisyan: What's Causing Accelerating Inflation? Pandemic Or Policy Response?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/63776558 Our Job Guarantee episodes: Episode 4 - Fadhel Kaboub: What is the Job Guarantee?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/41742701 Episode 47 - Pavlina Tcherneva: Building Resilience - The Case For A Job Guarantee: https://www.patreon.com/posts/36034543 Episode 148 - Pavlina Tcherneva: Why The Job Guarantee Is Core To Modern Monetary Theory: https://www.patreon.com/posts/episode-148-why-73211346 Quick read: Pavlina Tcherneva's Job Guarantee FAQ page: https://pavlina-tcherneva.net/job-guarantee-faq/ More on government bonds (and "vigilantes"): Episode 30 - Steven Hail: Understanding Government Bonds (Part 1):https://www.patreon.com/posts/29621245 Episode 31 - Steven Hail: Understanding Government Bonds (Part 2): https://www.patreon.com/posts/29829500 Episode 143 - Paul Sheard: What Is Quantitative Easing?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/71589989?pr=true Episode 147 - Dirk Ehnts: Do Markets Control Our Politics?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/episode-147-dirk-72906421 Episode 144 - Warren Mosler: The Natural Rate Of Interest Is Zero: https://www.patreon.com/posts/71966513 Episode 145 - John T Harvey: What Determines Currency Prices?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/72283811?pr=true More on bank runs banking regulation: Episode 162 - Warren Mosler: Anatomy Of A Bank Run: https://www.patreon.com/posts/80157783?pr=true Episode 163 - L. Randall Wray: Breaking Banks - The Fed's Magical Monetarist Thinking Strikes Again: https://www.patreon.com/posts/80479169?pr=true Episode 165 - Robert Hockett: Sparking An Industrial Renewal By Building Banks Better: https://www.patreon.com/posts/81084983?pr=true MMT founder Warren Mosler's Proposals for the Treasury, the Federal Reserve, the FDIC, and the Banking System: https://neweconomicperspectives.org/2010/02/warren-moslers-proposals-for-treasury.html MMT Events And Courses: More information about Professor Bill Mitchell's MMTed project (free public online courses in MMT) here: http://www.mmted.org/ Details of Modern Money Lab's online graduate and postgraduate courses in MMT and real-world economics are here: https://modernmoneylab.org.au/ Order the Gower Initiative's "Modern Monetary Theory - Key Insights, Leading Thinkers": https://www.e-elgar.com/shop/gbp/modern-monetary-theory-9781802208085.html MMT Academic Resources compiled by The Gower Initiative for Modern Money Studies: https://www.zotero.org/groups/2251544/mmt_academic_resources_-_compiled_by_the_gower_initiative_for_modern_money_studies MMT scholarship compiled by New Economic Perspectives: http://neweconomicperspectives.org/mmt-scholarship A list of MMT-informed campaigns and organisations worldwide: https://www.patreon.com/posts/47900757 We are working towards full transcripts, but in the meantime, closed captions for all episodes are available on our YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEp_nGVTuMfBun2wiG-c0Ew/videos Show notes: https://www.patreon.com/posts/144089227?pr=true

In this engaging discussion, economist Phil Armstrong shares his insights on the upcoming UK budget and the Green Party's embrace of Modern Monetary Theory (MMT). He critiques conventional narratives surrounding budget constraints and emphasizes that a currency issuer can address public needs without creating false dilemmas. Armstrong advocates for a Job Guarantee, positing it as a vital stabilizer and ethical obligation. He contrasts it with Universal Basic Income, highlighting the community-building aspects of job creation. An enlightening dive into MMT principles and social responsibility awaits!

(Part 2) Patricia and Christian continue their conversation with Dr Phil Armstrong about recent events in the world of government budgeting, and the upcoming Anti-Austerity Conference on September 12th-13th. Full conversation here: https://www.patreon.com/posts/135071185?pr=true&cr=true Please help sustain this podcast! Patrons get early access to all episodes and patron-only episodes: https://www.patreon.com/MMTpodcast All our episodes in chronological order: https://www.patreon.com/posts/43111643 All our patron-only episodes: https://www.patreon.com/posts/57542767 LIVE EVENTS! The Anti-austerity Conference (Bristol and online) 12th & 13th September: https://modernmoneylab.org.uk/events/bristol-conference-2025/ Modern Money Lab seminars featuring Dr Steven Hail - "Public Money for Public Good: Why MMT Matters" Amsterdam, 14th September Sheffield 20th & 21st September Vienna, 27th & 28th September All tickets: https://modernmoneylab.org.uk/events/ JOIN PATRICIA'S MMT ACTIVIST NETWORK (MMT UK): https://actionnetwork.org/forms/activist-registration-form MMT: THE MOVIE! "Finding The Money", a documentary by Maren Poitras featuring Stephanie Kelton is now available worldwide to rent or buy: https://findingthemoney.vhx.tv/products/finding-the-money Updates on worldwide screenings of "Finding The Money" can be found here: https://findingmoneyfilm.com/where-to-watch/ To arrange a screening of "Finding The Money", apply here: https://findingmoneyfilm.com/host-a-screening/ STUDY THE ECONOMICS OF SUSTAINABILITY! Details of Modern Money Lab's online graduate, postgraduate and standalone courses in economics are here: https://modernmoneylab.org.au/ Relevant to this episode XXXXX: "How to Fight Back Against the False Idea that the Government is at the Mercy of Financial Markets" by Sheridan Kates: https://thealternative.org.uk/dailyalternative/2025/3/10/scotonomics-monetary-autonomy For more on the endogenous money view (the non-fringe, very mainstream view that bank loans create deposits, not the other way around), listen to episode 126 - Dirk Ehnts: How Banks Create Money: https://www.patreon.com/posts/62603318 and episode 43 - Sam Levey: Understanding Endogenous Money: https://www.patreon.com/posts/35073683 XXXXX For more on the (Liz) Trussageddon, listen to Episode 147 - Dirk Ehnts: Do Markets Control Our Politics?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/episode-147-dirk-72906421 Episode 30 - Steven Hail: Understanding Government Bonds (Part 1) :https://www.patreon.com/posts/29621245 Episode 31 - Steven Hail: Understanding Government Bonds (Part 2): https://www.patreon.com/posts/29829500 "Federal Debt and Modern Money" by Steven Hail & David Joy: https://www.global-isp.org/wp-content/uploads/PN-121.pdf "There is no need to issue public debt" by Bill Mitchell: https://billmitchell.org/blog/?p=31715 Episode 148 - Pavlina Tcherneva: Why The Job Guarantee Is Core To Modern Monetary Theory: https://www.patreon.com/posts/episode-148-why-73211346 Quick read: Pavlina Tcherneva's Job Guarantee FAQ page: https://pavlina-tcherneva.net/job-guarantee-faq/ For an intro to MMT: Our first three episodes: https://www.patreon.com/posts/41742417 Episode 126 - Dirk Ehnts: How Banks Create Money: https://www.patreon.com/posts/62603318 Quick MMT reads: Warren's Mosler's MMT white paper: http://moslereconomics.com/mmt-white-paper/ Steven Hail's quick MMT explainer: https://theconversation.com/explainer-what-is-modern-monetary-theory-72095 Quick explanation of government debt and deficit: "Some Numbers Are Big. Let Me Help You Get Over It": https://christreilly.com/2020/02/17/some-numbers-are-big-let-me-help-you-get-over-it/ For a short, non-technical, free ebook explaining MMT, download Warren Mosler's "7 Deadly Innocent Frauds Of Economic Policy" here: http://moslereconomics.com/wp-content/powerpoints/7DIF.pdf Episodes on monetary operations: Episode 20 - Warren Mosler: The MMT Money Story (part 1): https://www.patreon.com/posts/28004824 Episode 126 - Dirk Ehnts: How Banks Create Money: https://www.patreon.com/posts/62603318 Episode 13 - Steven Hail: Everything You Always Wanted To Know About Banking, But Were Afraid To Ask: https://www.patreon.com/posts/41790887 Episode 43 - Sam Levey: Understanding Endogenous Money: https://www.patreon.com/posts/35073683 Episode 84 - Andrew Berkeley, Richard Tye & Neil Wilson: An Accounting Model Of The UK Exchequer (Part 1): https://www.patreon.com/posts/46352183 Episode 86 - Andrew Berkeley, Richard Tye & Neil Wilson: An Accounting Model Of The UK Exchequer (Part 2): https://www.patreon.com/posts/46865929 For more on Quantitative Easing: Episode 59 - Warren Mosler: What Do Central Banks Do?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/39070023 Episode 143 - Paul Sheard: What Is Quantitative Easing?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/71589989?pr=true Episodes on inflation: Episode 7: Steven Hail: Inflation, Price Shocks and Other Misunderstandings: https://www.patreon.com/posts/41780508 Episode 65 - Phil Armstrong: Understanding Inflation: https://www.patreon.com/posts/40672678 Episode 104 - John T Harvey: Inflation, Stagflation & Healing The Nation: https://www.patreon.com/posts/52207835 Episode 123 - Warren Mosler: Understanding The Price Level And Inflation: https://www.patreon.com/posts/59856379 Episode 128 - L. Randall Wray & Yeva Nersisyan: What's Causing Accelerating Inflation? Pandemic Or Policy Response?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/63776558 Our Job Guarantee episodes: Episode 4 - Fadhel Kaboub: What is the Job Guarantee?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/41742701 Episode 47 - Pavlina Tcherneva: Building Resilience - The Case For A Job Guarantee: https://www.patreon.com/posts/36034543 Episode 148 - Pavlina Tcherneva: Why The Job Guarantee Is Core To Modern Monetary Theory: https://www.patreon.com/posts/episode-148-why-73211346 Quick read: Pavlina Tcherneva's Job Guarantee FAQ page: https://pavlina-tcherneva.net/job-guarantee-faq/ More on government bonds (and "vigilantes"): Episode 30 - Steven Hail: Understanding Government Bonds (Part 1):https://www.patreon.com/posts/29621245 Episode 31 - Steven Hail: Understanding Government Bonds (Part 2): https://www.patreon.com/posts/29829500 Episode 143 - Paul Sheard: What Is Quantitative Easing?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/71589989?pr=true Episode 147 - Dirk Ehnts: Do Markets Control Our Politics?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/episode-147-dirk-72906421 Episode 144 - Warren Mosler: The Natural Rate Of Interest Is Zero: https://www.patreon.com/posts/71966513 Episode 145 - John T Harvey: What Determines Currency Prices?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/72283811?pr=true More on bank runs banking regulation: Episode 162 - Warren Mosler: Anatomy Of A Bank Run: https://www.patreon.com/posts/80157783?pr=true Episode 163 - L. Randall Wray: Breaking Banks - The Fed's Magical Monetarist Thinking Strikes Again: https://www.patreon.com/posts/80479169?pr=true Episode 165 - Robert Hockett: Sparking An Industrial Renewal By Building Banks Better: https://www.patreon.com/posts/81084983?pr=true MMT founder Warren Mosler's Proposals for the Treasury, the Federal Reserve, the FDIC, and the Banking System: https://neweconomicperspectives.org/2010/02/warren-moslers-proposals-for-treasury.html MMT Events And Courses: More information about Professor Bill Mitchell's MMTed project (free public online courses in MMT) here: http://www.mmted.org/ Details of Modern Money Lab's online graduate and postgraduate courses in MMT and real-world economics are here: https://modernmoneylab.org.au/ Order the Gower Initiative's "Modern Monetary Theory - Key Insights, Leading Thinkers": https://www.e-elgar.com/shop/gbp/modern-monetary-theory-9781802208085.html MMT Academic Resources compiled by The Gower Initiative for Modern Money Studies: https://www.zotero.org/groups/2251544/mmt_academic_resources_-_compiled_by_the_gower_initiative_for_modern_money_studies MMT scholarship compiled by New Economic Perspectives: http://neweconomicperspectives.org/mmt-scholarship A list of MMT-informed campaigns and organisations worldwide: https://www.patreon.com/posts/47900757 We are working towards full transcripts, but in the meantime, closed captions for all episodes are available on our YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEp_nGVTuMfBun2wiG-c0Ew/videos Show notes: https://www.patreon.com/posts/episode-201-we-2-138058582

Patricia and Christian talk to Dr Phil Armstrong about recent events in the world of government budgeting, and the upcoming Anti-Austerity Conference on September 12th-13th. Full conversation here: https://www.patreon.com/posts/135071185?pr=true&cr=true Please help sustain this podcast! Patrons get early access to all episodes and patron-only episodes: https://www.patreon.com/MMTpodcast All our episodes in chronological order: https://www.patreon.com/posts/43111643 All our patron-only episodes: https://www.patreon.com/posts/57542767 LIVE EVENTS! The Anti-austerity Conference (Bristol and online) 12th & 13th September: https://modernmoneylab.org.uk/events/bristol-conference-2025/ Modern Money Lab seminars featuring Dr Steven Hail - "Public Money for Public Good: Why MMT Matters" Amsterdam, 14th September Sheffield 20th & 21st September Vienna, 27th & 28th September All tickets: https://modernmoneylab.org.uk/events/ JOIN PATRICIA'S MMT ACTIVIST NETWORK (MMT UK): https://actionnetwork.org/forms/activist-registration-form MMT: THE MOVIE! "Finding The Money", a documentary by Maren Poitras featuring Stephanie Kelton is now available worldwide to rent or buy: https://findingthemoney.vhx.tv/products/finding-the-money Updates on worldwide screenings of "Finding The Money" can be found here: https://findingmoneyfilm.com/where-to-watch/ To arrange a screening of "Finding The Money", apply here: https://findingmoneyfilm.com/host-a-screening/ STUDY THE ECONOMICS OF SUSTAINABILITY! Details of Modern Money Lab's online graduate, postgraduate and standalone courses in economics are here: https://modernmoneylab.org.au/ Relevant to this episode XXXXX: "How to Fight Back Against the False Idea that the Government is at the Mercy of Financial Markets" by Sheridan Kates: https://thealternative.org.uk/dailyalternative/2025/3/10/scotonomics-monetary-autonomy For more on the endogenous money view (the non-fringe, very mainstream view that bank loans create deposits, not the other way around), listen to episode 126 - Dirk Ehnts: How Banks Create Money: https://www.patreon.com/posts/62603318 and episode 43 - Sam Levey: Understanding Endogenous Money: https://www.patreon.com/posts/35073683 XXXXX For more on the (Liz) Trussageddon, listen to Episode 147 - Dirk Ehnts: Do Markets Control Our Politics?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/episode-147-dirk-72906421 Episode 30 - Steven Hail: Understanding Government Bonds (Part 1) :https://www.patreon.com/posts/29621245 Episode 31 - Steven Hail: Understanding Government Bonds (Part 2): https://www.patreon.com/posts/29829500 "Federal Debt and Modern Money" by Steven Hail & David Joy: https://www.global-isp.org/wp-content/uploads/PN-121.pdf "There is no need to issue public debt" by Bill Mitchell: https://billmitchell.org/blog/?p=31715 Episode 148 - Pavlina Tcherneva: Why The Job Guarantee Is Core To Modern Monetary Theory: https://www.patreon.com/posts/episode-148-why-73211346 Quick read: Pavlina Tcherneva's Job Guarantee FAQ page: https://pavlina-tcherneva.net/job-guarantee-faq/ For an intro to MMT: Our first three episodes: https://www.patreon.com/posts/41742417 Episode 126 - Dirk Ehnts: How Banks Create Money: https://www.patreon.com/posts/62603318 Quick MMT reads: Warren's Mosler's MMT white paper: http://moslereconomics.com/mmt-white-paper/ Steven Hail's quick MMT explainer: https://theconversation.com/explainer-what-is-modern-monetary-theory-72095 Quick explanation of government debt and deficit: "Some Numbers Are Big. Let Me Help You Get Over It": https://christreilly.com/2020/02/17/some-numbers-are-big-let-me-help-you-get-over-it/ For a short, non-technical, free ebook explaining MMT, download Warren Mosler's "7 Deadly Innocent Frauds Of Economic Policy" here: http://moslereconomics.com/wp-content/powerpoints/7DIF.pdf Episodes on monetary operations: Episode 20 - Warren Mosler: The MMT Money Story (part 1): https://www.patreon.com/posts/28004824 Episode 126 - Dirk Ehnts: How Banks Create Money: https://www.patreon.com/posts/62603318 Episode 13 - Steven Hail: Everything You Always Wanted To Know About Banking, But Were Afraid To Ask: https://www.patreon.com/posts/41790887 Episode 43 - Sam Levey: Understanding Endogenous Money: https://www.patreon.com/posts/35073683 Episode 84 - Andrew Berkeley, Richard Tye & Neil Wilson: An Accounting Model Of The UK Exchequer (Part 1): https://www.patreon.com/posts/46352183 Episode 86 - Andrew Berkeley, Richard Tye & Neil Wilson: An Accounting Model Of The UK Exchequer (Part 2): https://www.patreon.com/posts/46865929 For more on Quantitative Easing: Episode 59 - Warren Mosler: What Do Central Banks Do?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/39070023 Episode 143 - Paul Sheard: What Is Quantitative Easing?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/71589989?pr=true Episodes on inflation: Episode 7: Steven Hail: Inflation, Price Shocks and Other Misunderstandings: https://www.patreon.com/posts/41780508 Episode 65 - Phil Armstrong: Understanding Inflation: https://www.patreon.com/posts/40672678 Episode 104 - John T Harvey: Inflation, Stagflation & Healing The Nation: https://www.patreon.com/posts/52207835 Episode 123 - Warren Mosler: Understanding The Price Level And Inflation: https://www.patreon.com/posts/59856379 Episode 128 - L. Randall Wray & Yeva Nersisyan: What's Causing Accelerating Inflation? Pandemic Or Policy Response?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/63776558 Our Job Guarantee episodes: Episode 4 - Fadhel Kaboub: What is the Job Guarantee?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/41742701 Episode 47 - Pavlina Tcherneva: Building Resilience - The Case For A Job Guarantee: https://www.patreon.com/posts/36034543 Episode 148 - Pavlina Tcherneva: Why The Job Guarantee Is Core To Modern Monetary Theory: https://www.patreon.com/posts/episode-148-why-73211346 Quick read: Pavlina Tcherneva's Job Guarantee FAQ page: https://pavlina-tcherneva.net/job-guarantee-faq/ More on government bonds (and "vigilantes"): Episode 30 - Steven Hail: Understanding Government Bonds (Part 1):https://www.patreon.com/posts/29621245 Episode 31 - Steven Hail: Understanding Government Bonds (Part 2): https://www.patreon.com/posts/29829500 Episode 143 - Paul Sheard: What Is Quantitative Easing?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/71589989?pr=true Episode 147 - Dirk Ehnts: Do Markets Control Our Politics?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/episode-147-dirk-72906421 Episode 144 - Warren Mosler: The Natural Rate Of Interest Is Zero: https://www.patreon.com/posts/71966513 Episode 145 - John T Harvey: What Determines Currency Prices?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/72283811?pr=true More on bank runs banking regulation: Episode 162 - Warren Mosler: Anatomy Of A Bank Run: https://www.patreon.com/posts/80157783?pr=true Episode 163 - L. Randall Wray: Breaking Banks - The Fed's Magical Monetarist Thinking Strikes Again: https://www.patreon.com/posts/80479169?pr=true Episode 165 - Robert Hockett: Sparking An Industrial Renewal By Building Banks Better: https://www.patreon.com/posts/81084983?pr=true MMT founder Warren Mosler's Proposals for the Treasury, the Federal Reserve, the FDIC, and the Banking System: https://neweconomicperspectives.org/2010/02/warren-moslers-proposals-for-treasury.html MMT Events And Courses: More information about Professor Bill Mitchell's MMTed project (free public online courses in MMT) here: http://www.mmted.org/ Details of Modern Money Lab's online graduate and postgraduate courses in MMT and real-world economics are here: https://modernmoneylab.org.au/ Order the Gower Initiative's "Modern Monetary Theory - Key Insights, Leading Thinkers": https://www.e-elgar.com/shop/gbp/modern-monetary-theory-9781802208085.html MMT Academic Resources compiled by The Gower Initiative for Modern Money Studies: https://www.zotero.org/groups/2251544/mmt_academic_resources_-_compiled_by_the_gower_initiative_for_modern_money_studies MMT scholarship compiled by New Economic Perspectives: http://neweconomicperspectives.org/mmt-scholarship A list of MMT-informed campaigns and organisations worldwide: https://www.patreon.com/posts/47900757 We are working towards full transcripts, but in the meantime, closed captions for all episodes are available on our YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEp_nGVTuMfBun2wiG-c0Ew/videos

Christian talks to Professor Jakob Feinig about how right-wing politics is bolstered by the myth that humans are part of a mechanism they can neither understand nor change - The Market - and the efforts to further its mystification, known as "monetary silencing". Please help sustain this podcast! Patrons get early access to all episodes and patron-only episodes: https://www.patreon.com/MMTpodcast All our episodes in chronological order: https://www.patreon.com/posts/43111643 All our patron-only episodes: https://www.patreon.com/posts/57542767 LIVE EVENTS! Modern Money Lab UK weekend seminars in London featuring Dr Steven Hail: June 21st & 22nd (White City) - Rethinking Capitalism June 28th & 29th (Finsbury Park) - Money, Government and the Public Interest - Beyond The Deficit Myth Details and tickets: https://modernmoneylab.org.uk/events/ JOIN PATRICIA'S MMT ACTIVIST NETWORK (MMT UK): https://actionnetwork.org/forms/activist-registration-form MMT: THE MOVIE! "Finding The Money", a documentary by Maren Poitras featuring Stephanie Kelton is now available worldwide to rent or buy: https://findingthemoney.vhx.tv/products/finding-the-money Updates on worldwide screenings of "Finding The Money" can be found here: https://findingmoneyfilm.com/where-to-watch/ To arrange a screening of "Finding The Money", apply here: https://findingmoneyfilm.com/host-a-screening/ STUDY THE ECONOMICS OF SUSTAINABILITY! Details of Modern Money Lab's online graduate, postgraduate and standalone courses in economics are here: https://modernmoneylab.org.au/ Relevant to this episode: "MAGA, the Job Guarantee, and Post-Neoliberal Public Knowledge" by Jakob Feinig: https://www.postneoliberalism.org/articles/maga-the-job-guarantee-and-post-neoliberal-public-knowledge/#primary "Moral Economies of Money" by Jakob Feinig: https://www.sup.org/books/title/?id=33698 Money On The Left Collective: https://moneyontheleft.org/ Our episode 69 with Scott Ferguson & Maxx Seijo from Money On The Left - "The Choreographers of Credit" - on the "Uni" credit-issuance project: https://www.patreon.com/posts/42552289 "How to Fight Back Against the False Idea that the Government is at the Mercy of Financial Markets" by Sheridan Kates: https://thealternative.org.uk/dailyalternative/2025/3/10/scotonomics-monetary-autonomy For more on the endogenous money view (the non-fringe, very mainstream view that bank loans create deposits, not the other way around), listen to episode 126 - Dirk Ehnts: How Banks Create Money: https://www.patreon.com/posts/62603318 and episode 43 - Sam Levey: Understanding Endogenous Money: https://www.patreon.com/posts/35073683 For more on the (Liz) Trussageddon, listen to Episode 147 - Dirk Ehnts: Do Markets Control Our Politics?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/episode-147-dirk-72906421 For an intro to MMT: Our first three episodes: https://www.patreon.com/posts/41742417 Episode 126 - Dirk Ehnts: How Banks Create Money: https://www.patreon.com/posts/62603318 Quick MMT reads: Warren's Mosler's MMT white paper: http://moslereconomics.com/mmt-white-paper/ Steven Hail's quick MMT explainer: https://theconversation.com/explainer-what-is-modern-monetary-theory-72095 Quick explanation of government debt and deficit: "Some Numbers Are Big. Let Me Help You Get Over It": https://christreilly.com/2020/02/17/some-numbers-are-big-let-me-help-you-get-over-it/ For a short, non-technical, free ebook explaining MMT, download Warren Mosler's "7 Deadly Innocent Frauds Of Economic Policy" here: http://moslereconomics.com/wp-content/powerpoints/7DIF.pdf Episodes on monetary operations: Episode 20 - Warren Mosler: The MMT Money Story (part 1): https://www.patreon.com/posts/28004824 Episode 126 - Dirk Ehnts: How Banks Create Money: https://www.patreon.com/posts/62603318 Episode 13 - Steven Hail: Everything You Always Wanted To Know About Banking, But Were Afraid To Ask: https://www.patreon.com/posts/41790887 Episode 43 - Sam Levey: Understanding Endogenous Money: https://www.patreon.com/posts/35073683 Episode 84 - Andrew Berkeley, Richard Tye & Neil Wilson: An Accounting Model Of The UK Exchequer (Part 1): https://www.patreon.com/posts/46352183 Episode 86 - Andrew Berkeley, Richard Tye & Neil Wilson: An Accounting Model Of The UK Exchequer (Part 2): https://www.patreon.com/posts/46865929 For more on Quantitative Easing: Episode 59 - Warren Mosler: What Do Central Banks Do?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/39070023 Episode 143 - Paul Sheard: What Is Quantitative Easing?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/71589989?pr=true Episodes on inflation: Episode 7: Steven Hail: Inflation, Price Shocks and Other Misunderstandings: https://www.patreon.com/posts/41780508 Episode 65 - Phil Armstrong: Understanding Inflation: https://www.patreon.com/posts/40672678 Episode 104 - John T Harvey: Inflation, Stagflation & Healing The Nation: https://www.patreon.com/posts/52207835 Episode 123 - Warren Mosler: Understanding The Price Level And Inflation: https://www.patreon.com/posts/59856379 Episode 128 - L. Randall Wray & Yeva Nersisyan: What's Causing Accelerating Inflation? Pandemic Or Policy Response?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/63776558 Our Job Guarantee episodes: Episode 4 - Fadhel Kaboub: What is the Job Guarantee?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/41742701 Episode 47 - Pavlina Tcherneva: Building Resilience - The Case For A Job Guarantee: https://www.patreon.com/posts/36034543 Episode 148 - Pavlina Tcherneva: Why The Job Guarantee Is Core To Modern Monetary Theory: https://www.patreon.com/posts/episode-148-why-73211346 Quick read: Pavlina Tcherneva's Job Guarantee FAQ page: https://pavlina-tcherneva.net/job-guarantee-faq/ More on government bonds (and "vigilantes"): Episode 30 - Steven Hail: Understanding Government Bonds (Part 1):https://www.patreon.com/posts/29621245 Episode 31 - Steven Hail: Understanding Government Bonds (Part 2): https://www.patreon.com/posts/29829500 Episode 143 - Paul Sheard: What Is Quantitative Easing?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/71589989?pr=true Episode 147 - Dirk Ehnts: Do Markets Control Our Politics?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/episode-147-dirk-72906421 Episode 144 - Warren Mosler: The Natural Rate Of Interest Is Zero: https://www.patreon.com/posts/71966513 Episode 145 - John T Harvey: What Determines Currency Prices?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/72283811?pr=true More on bank runs banking regulation: Episode 162 - Warren Mosler: Anatomy Of A Bank Run: https://www.patreon.com/posts/80157783?pr=true Episode 163 - L. Randall Wray: Breaking Banks - The Fed's Magical Monetarist Thinking Strikes Again: https://www.patreon.com/posts/80479169?pr=true Episode 165 - Robert Hockett: Sparking An Industrial Renewal By Building Banks Better: https://www.patreon.com/posts/81084983?pr=true MMT founder Warren Mosler's Proposals for the Treasury, the Federal Reserve, the FDIC, and the Banking System: https://neweconomicperspectives.org/2010/02/warren-moslers-proposals-for-treasury.html MMT Events And Courses: More information about Professor Bill Mitchell's MMTed project (free public online courses in MMT) here: http://www.mmted.org/ Details of Modern Money Lab's online graduate and postgraduate courses in MMT are here: https://modernmoneylab.org.au/ Order the Gower Initiative's "Modern Monetary Theory - Key Insights, Leading Thinkers": https://www.e-elgar.com/shop/gbp/modern-monetary-theory-9781802208085.html MMT Academic Resources compiled by The Gower Initiative for Modern Money Studies: https://www.zotero.org/groups/2251544/mmt_academic_resources_-_compiled_by_the_gower_initiative_for_modern_money_studies MMT scholarship compiled by New Economic Perspectives: http://neweconomicperspectives.org/mmt-scholarship A list of MMT-informed campaigns and organisations worldwide: https://www.patreon.com/posts/47900757 We are working towards full transcripts, but in the meantime, closed captions for all episodes are available on our YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEp_nGVTuMfBun2wiG-c0Ew/videos Show notes: https://www.patreon.com/posts/episode-199-wing-131820648

In this engaging discussion, Katy Shields, a recovering mainstream economist and writer, dives into the pitfalls of captured economics, revealing how traditional growth metrics overshadow urgent climate and societal needs. She critiques the accountability of the economics field, likening it to a workaholic needing intervention. Katy advocates for prioritizing human well-being and environmental sustainability through an innovative shift to 'sufficiency' policies, emphasizing the necessity of interdisciplinary approaches to economics for a healthier future.

In a riveting discussion, economist Steven Hail, founder of Modern Money Lab, challenges the common notion of wealth taxes as a solution to fund critical public services. He urges a shift from tax redistribution to government money creation, highlighting the potential drawbacks of waiting for the wealthy to contribute. The conversation also dives into the complexities of tariffs, economic inequalities, and the political dynamics that shape our financial landscape, all while advocating for innovative strategies to ensure sustainability and community engagement.