Chris Gill on Learning to Live Naturally (Episode 78)
Sep 15, 2023
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In this conversation, Caleb speaks with Chris Gill, author of Learning to Live Naturally: Stoic Ethics and its Modern Significance. They discuss topics such as understanding indifference in Stoicism, the connection between human nature and virtue, the perception of the natural world through stoic philosophy, and promotion of upcoming books and resources.
Virtue helps us make correct choices between various desires, promoting ethical understanding instead of pursuing all positive things.
Stoicism encourages a holistic view of nature, recognizing our dependence on and care for the planet.
Deep dives
The concept of indifference and virtue in Stoicism
In this podcast episode, the speaker explores the Stoic understanding of indifference and virtue. They explain that in life, there are various things we desire, such as health, wealth, and life itself. These are referred to as indifference in Stoic philosophy. The Stoics believe that virtue, which is knowledge or expertise in living well, enables us to make correct choices between these indifference. Virtue helps us select what is truly good for us based on ethical understanding, rather than simply pursuing all positive indifference. The podcast emphasizes that virtue, although self-sufficient for happiness, does not promote self-centeredness, as two of the cardinal virtues, justice and courage, involve engaging with others.
The connection between human nature and the nature of the cosmos
The podcast delves into how Stoicism views the relationship between human nature and the nature of the cosmos. The speaker explains that the Stoics believe human beings are rational and sociable, and our nature is a combination of rationality and sociability. They argue that our behavior is motivated by natural inclinations to care for ourselves and others of our kind. The Stoics also emphasize that nature as a whole exhibits a providential care for everything within it, including plants, animals, and human beings. By aligning our actions with nature's patterns of care and providence, the speaker suggests that stoic philosophy encourages us to create ethical order within ourselves and care for our own well-being as well as the well-being of others.
Challenging the notion of detachment in stoic ethics
One common objection to stoic ethics is the perception that it promotes detachment from things of value. The podcast addresses this concern by discussing the story of Stilpo, a stoic philosopher whose city was ravaged. When confronted by Demetrius, the conqueror responsible for the destruction, Stilpo responds with resilience, stating that Demetrius took nothing of his. This story illustrates that stoicism does not advocate complete detachment, but rather the acceptance of the reality of loss and the recognition that virtue is the ultimate good. The speaker clarifies that while the stoics emphasize the pursuit of virtue as the path to happiness, they acknowledge the genuine losses that individuals may experience and the importance of familial and communal relationships within the context of virtuous action.
Applying stoicism to our relationship with nature
The podcast explores how stoic philosophy can enhance our understanding and encounters with nature. The speaker highlights the Stoic perspective on humanity's place within the natural world, stressing that human beings are not separate from nature but rather an integral part of it. Stoicism encourages a holistic view, recognizing our dependence on nature and the need to preserve the planet's organic whole. The podcast addresses the urgency of addressing environmental issues, such as climate change, and suggests that stoicism can provide a vision of nature as an interconnected and harmonious system. By aligning ourselves with nature's patterns and caring for the planet, the speaker argues that stoicism can offer valuable insights and contribute to restoring a balanced relationship between humanity and the natural world.
"Happiness, as the goal of life, can be understood as the highest expression of human nature, as encapsulating the chief markers of humanity at its best, namely rationality and sociability."
In this conversation, I (Caleb) speak with Chris Gill. We kick off the conversation with topics from his most recent book Learning to Live Naturally: Stoic Ethics and its Modern Significance. It’s no exaggeration to say that Chris Gill is a legend in modern Stoicism so having him on again was a real privilege.