Sexvangelicals S3E15: How Purity Culture Informed the 90s and 00s, with Teddi and Nick from Oh God I Forgot About That
Cosmic Consequences (10:00): “I say this basically every single episode. When you attach cosmic consequences to anything you guarantee it's going to be messed up. You're creating trauma. You're creating anxieties. And that's what I did.” Nick highlights the quintessential issue within the Church, and that is attaching God-given consequences to actions. For instance, if you have sex before marriage, you are going to go to hell. This type of thinking fosters intense anxiety within folks because it gets rid of their ability to explore life without feeling like they will be punished for stepping out of line.
Deconstruction Within Relationships (12:00): Julia and Jeremiah both speak on how deconstruction happens within relationships, romantic or not, and how it is not the solo experience it is so often pictured to be. Julia says: “I’ve also noticed that some folks in the early stages of deconstruction can sometimes understandably overcompensate because they've been in these enmeshed communities for maybe decades. And so understandably, they want to start making their own individual autonomous choices as we should. However, as Jeremiah and I are relationship therapists, the deconstruction world doesn't always give good resources for how we still live in relationships all the time, not just with partners.” She mentions that many folks may struggle with moving too far into an isolated space as a form of regaining autonomy. Jeremiah adds: “And a good reminder that deconstruction happens in relationships. This isn't a person like sailing away on their own solitary boat out into the great blue ocean. This happens through the conversations that y'all are talking about and, sometimes with partners, sometimes not with partners and that's exciting. It's complicated.” He talks about how deconstruction is happening within the context of our relationships, and it’s important to have these conversations because deconstruction looks different for everyone, however we all have people in our lives and it’s important to figure out how to navigate this enormous change.
Physical Contact Through a Sexual Lens (22:00): “My partner said something brilliant, we were just having this conversation about the reason men misunderstand their sexual urges and desires. Especially men in the church are two-pronged. The first is what we've already talked about, which is you're always already in sexual temptation. But the other is, that men are conditioned to not be physical with each other, except in the context of violence. Or competition, right? So you can, you can have a football huddle. You can do the bro hug where you do the weapons check and the smack on the back. You can punch fists. But, there is no physical intimacy encouraged or allowed in masculine spheres. And then when you're man to woman, boy to girl, forget it, it's off limits. You are, as a human being, boxed into this corner where no physical intimacy, except maybe your parents. So then because the only valence for physical contact that you as a man in the church are given is sexuality, right? Yeah, all of your desire for any sort of physical contact or physical intimacy that isn't necessarily sexual. Gets filtered through that sexual lens.” Nick describes how the Church creates an environment in which physical touch is only offered to men through a violent lens or sexual one. This also creates a world view where sexuality is informed by violence and feeds into the idea that men are inherently violent.
Creating the Podcast (27:00): “Eleanor Roosevelt said something along the lines of like you'd be like delighted and disturbed to know how little people are actually thinking about you. And that proved true with the podcast. Like I have heard from no one about it. I mean, they could all be listening. All the people from my youth could be listening and discussing it behind my back. Perhaps they're not. I've had a few people who are more in the deconstruction stage of their faith, say that they're listening and that it's helpful to them, they almost presented in a kind of envious way, like, I can't wait to be on the other side and be able to talk about this the way you guys are talking about it, but for those who are deep in the church, like, I haven't heard anything from them and occasionally I will wonder what they're thinking, because how can you not?” Teddi talks about the challenges that come along with creating a podcast that talks about the Church, after years of being deeply rooted within it. The Church creates a Panopticon system, where everyone has the fear of being watched and told on, but is not sure if they are being watched at that moment. It generates an environment where trust is a challenging thing.
Separating the Individual and the Institution (32:00): “That's a conversation I've had with a few people in my life about the podcast because I know a lot of folks who are still in the church are still in conservatism and they have listened or they've like known that I've done it. […] I'm in a much better place where I can let everyone have their spiritual journey, and that's a very beneficial and important place for me, but the thing that I emphasize in those conversations is, again, the difference between the institution and the individual, right? When we look at somebody like Rob Bell, or we look at something like the Eldridge, you know, John and Stacey Eldridge's books, right? They feel fluffy, they feel vapid, anodyne, but they're put in this context where they become defining for not just the culture, but patterns of thought.” Nick talks about how it’s essential to let everyone have their own spiritual journey. Many folks who deconstruct are confronted by the people in their lives who still subscribe to Church ideologies, and many of those people feel personally attacked when someone is deconstructing. What is important on both sides is allowing folks to have their own relationship with spirituality and religion. Another point Nick covers is how Christian authors define thought, despite clearly lacking deep and meaningful research. As discussed many times on Sexvangelicals, Christian authors will use small sample sizes in their research, will fall back on Biblical principles, and sometimes, just straight up lie. What is dangerous however is their impact on thought within the Church and especially on young folks to whom these books are distributed too.
Doctrine Over Relationships (46:00): “Jeremiah and I always come back to the idea of a relationship. We had a conversation with Tia Levings, who people probably recognize from Shiny Happy People, and she describes fundamentalism as anything that puts a doctrine or a dogma over a human relationship.” Julia discusses a fundamental issue within the Church, which is putting doctrine over people. A key example of this is an unmarried couple who will abstain from sex because they believe they will go to hell for engaging in sex or with their sexuality. This is putting doctrine over relationships because this can and will harm many folks and their relationships because it makes sex the enemy and then sex becomes an enemy that has to be engaged with for the rest of their married lives.