The CTO Podcast

LIQUID – How CTOs Harness Complexity to Unlock Flow

13 snips
Aug 20, 2025
Join Kathy Keating, an operational specialist, and Scott Graves, a philosophy expert on complex adaptive systems, as they delve into the intricacies of modern leadership. They discuss their book, focusing on the dynamic partnership between CEOs and CTOs. The conversation highlights the importance of navigating organizational complexity to avoid chaos and rigidity, and the necessity of adaptability in today’s tech climate. Their creative process is sprinkled with humor, and they emphasize how storytelling can empower leaders to drive change effectively.
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INSIGHT

CTO's Job Is System Stewardship

  • CTOs must shift from 'technologist-out' thinking to 'business-back' sense-making to succeed.
  • Scott, Etienne, and Kathy argue CTO value is stewarding the system, not just shipping code.
ANECDOTE

A CTO Failure Sparked The Book

  • Etienne recounts a personal CTO failure that reframed his thinking from building tech to stewarding systems.
  • That failure led to developing the 'sentinels' and collaborating with Scott and Kathy on the book.
ADVICE

Prioritize People Over Tools

  • Treat technology orgs as people systems, not machines; prioritize human coordination over tool fetish.
  • Focus on enabling people to combine different skills to create outcomes machines alone cannot reproduce.
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