Anna Bower, a legal correspondent, teams up with AI expert Kevin Frazier and managing editor Tyler McBrien for an insightful discussion. They tackle the Trump administration's controversial use of the Alien Enemies Act to deport foreign nationals. The conversation also dives into the implications of AI in government, contrasting the Biden and Trump administrations’ approaches. Additionally, the chaos surrounding Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth's management of classified information is explored, raising pressing questions about leadership and security.
01:22:19
forum Ask episode
web_stories AI Snips
view_agenda Chapters
menu_book Books
auto_awesome Transcript
info_circle Episode notes
insights INSIGHT
Legal Battles Over Alien Enemies Act
The Alien Enemies Act removals face complex multi-front legal challenges including Supreme Court interventions and ongoing discovery disputes.
The administration uses legal privileges like state secrets to slow proceedings, signaling a combative, delay-oriented legal strategy.
insights INSIGHT
State Secrets Privilege as Delay Tactic
Invoking the state secrets privilege is a stalling tactic unlikely to succeed because courts carefully control its use.
This illustrates the administration operating maximalistically, fighting every legal order rather than seeking compromise.
insights INSIGHT
Contempt Order Sparks Delay Moves
The government faced a potential criminal contempt order for defying court rulings but appealed to delay enforcement.
The delay signals a strategic attempt to buy time rather than comply or negotiate.
Get the Snipd Podcast app to discover more snips from this episode
In *The Fifth Risk*, Michael Lewis delves into the Trump administration’s botched presidential transition, highlighting the consequences of willful ignorance and greed among its leaders. The book explores the critical services managed by the U.S. government, including ensuring food and drug safety, predicting extreme weather events, and tracking black market uranium. Lewis focuses on the Departments of Energy, Agriculture, and Commerce, revealing their often-overlooked roles and the dedicated employees who work within them. The title 'The Fifth Risk' refers to 'project management,' the unforeseen and long-term risks that only a vigilant and committed agency can forecast and prevent. Lewis's narrative is character-driven, featuring interviews with former federal staff members and historical context to illustrate the importance of effective government management and the dangers of short-term solutions[1][4][5].
This week, Scott sat down with his Lawfare colleagues Anna Bower, Tyler McBrien, and Kevin Frazier to talk through the week’s big national security news, including:
“Aliens vs. Predators.” Despite forceful legal pushback—including by the U.S. Supreme Court—the Trump administration is working hard to continue its campaign to remove foreign aliens it accuses of pursuing a “predatory incursion” from the country using the Alien Enemies Act. How far will it go? And to what extent can the courts (or anyone else) stop them?
“Aye Aye Robot.” Both the Biden and Trump administrations were fans of artificial intelligence (AI) and set out policies to incorporate it into government decision-making. But while the Biden administration focused much of its efforts on guardrails, the Trump administration has increasingly torn them down as part of a broader push to incorporate the nascent technology into government decision-making. What are the risks and potential benefits of this sort of government by AI?
“For Pete’s Sake.” Beleaguered Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth is more beleaguered than ever this week, after reports that, in addition to inadvertently sharing classified secrets with Atlantic reporter Jeffrey Goldberg, he also passed them to his wife, brother, and personal lawyer on another Signal thread. Meanwhile, a former adviser (and established Trump loyalist) went public with allegations that Hegseth’s management has led to chaos at the Defense Department and called for his resignation. Will this be enough for the Trump administration to cut bait and run? Or does his support in the MAGAsphere simply run too deep?
In object lessons, Tyler, fresh from biking adventures abroad, hyped the routes, photos, and resources on bikepacking.com, if physical exertion is your idea of relaxation. Anna, finding other ways to relax, came to the defense of The Big Short in helping to soothe her anxiety amid more current market upheaval. Doubling down on the “no relaxation without tension” theme, Scott’s outie binge-watched Severance while on vacation. And Kevin, very on-brand, was quick to bring us a feel-good story of a new community partnership to support AI skill-building in Austin-based nonprofits.
The Lawfare Podcast 
