The Gray Area with Sean Illing

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What do we owe animals?

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Jan 5, 2023

Guest

Martha Nussbaum

In this engaging discussion, Martha Nussbaum, the Ernst Freund Distinguished Service Professor of Philosophy and Law at the University of Chicago, explores her groundbreaking book, Justice for Animals. She argues for a rethinking of how we treat non-human animals, critiquing traditional ethical frameworks like utilitarianism. Nussbaum emphasizes the need for a universal ethical language that recognizes individual animal needs and advocates for stronger legal protections, particularly for companion animals, while challenging conventional farming practices.

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INSIGHT

Rejecting the Ladder of Nature

Some argue for a "ladder of nature," prioritizing animals similar to humans.
Nussbaum rejects this, advocating for considering the suffering of all animals.

insights

INSIGHT

Limitations of Utilitarianism

Utilitarianism, while acknowledging animal suffering, oversimplifies their needs.
It reduces animals to vessels of pleasure and pain, neglecting their complex lives.

insights

INSIGHT

Animal Agency and Kantian Ethics

Kantian approaches emphasize dignity but may underestimate animal agency.
Nussbaum argues animals actively express their needs and deserve to be heard.

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Rethinking Animal Justice

03:32 • 13min

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Ethical Language and Animal Welfare

16:51 • 8min

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Reimagining Animal Companionship

25:10 • 7min

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Ethical Considerations in Animal Farming and the Capabilities Approach

31:53 • 2min

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Ethics of Animal Decision-Making

33:53 • 12min

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Primates and Philosophers

How Morality Evolved (The University Center for Human Values Series)

Frans de Waal

In 'Primates and Philosophers,' Frans de Waal argues that modern evolutionary biology often portrays nature too negatively, emphasizing 'selfish' genes. He challenges 'Veneer Theory,' which suggests morality is a thin overlay on an otherwise nasty nature, by highlighting the continuity between human and animal behavior. The book includes responses from philosophers Peter Singer, Christine M. Korsgaard, and Philip Kitcher, and science writer Robert Wright, fostering a lively debate on the origins of human morality.

Politicizing Political Liberalism

On the Containment of Illiberal and Anti-Democratic Views

Gabriele Badano

Alasia Nuti

Alasia Nuti and Gabriele Badano's "Politicizing Political Liberalism" offers a normative framework for liberal democratic self-defense. The book tackles the challenge of countering illiberal and anti-democratic views while upholding liberal values. It examines the roles of various actors, including citizens, political parties, and municipalities, in this process. The authors build upon John Rawls's concept of political liberalism, addressing the need to contain unreasonable views that reject the principles of freedom and equality for all. The book provides insightful solutions to complex issues within political liberalism, offering a nuanced approach to real-world political challenges.

First published in 1975, 'Animal Liberation' by Peter Singer has been a pivotal book in the animal rights movement. It introduces the concept of 'speciesism,' the systematic neglect and exploitation of nonhuman animals. Singer argues that the interests of all beings capable of suffering should be given equal consideration, regardless of their species. The book critiques factory farming and animal experimentation, presenting alternatives and advocating for a vegetarian or vegan lifestyle. The revised edition, 'Animal Liberation Now,' updates the arguments to reflect current issues, including environmental impacts and the spread of viruses from factory farms.

Fellow Creatures

Christine M. Korsgaard

Drawing the line

Steven Wise

In 'Drawing the Line,' Steven M. Wise presents a compelling argument for animal rights by examining the intelligence and cognitive abilities of animals compared to humans. The book challenges the conventional legal and societal treatment of animals as mere objects without rights. Wise's work is part of his broader mission to elevate the legal status of nonhuman animals.

Sue Donaldson and Will Kymlicka's "Zoopolis" offers a groundbreaking framework for understanding animal citizenship and rights. The book challenges traditional views of human-animal relationships, proposing a political theory that recognizes the diverse ways animals participate in human societies. Donaldson and Kymlicka introduce the concept of "liminal animals," those who live in close proximity to humans but are not fully domesticated. They argue for a more nuanced approach to animal rights, acknowledging the varying degrees of integration and dependence between humans and animals. The book's innovative approach has significantly influenced discussions on animal welfare and ethical considerations in human-animal interactions.

Guest host Sigal Samuel talks with philosopher and author Martha Nussbaum about her new book, Justice for Animals. Martha discusses several different ethical, legal, and metaphysical theories for how we humans should treat other non-human animals, and offers her own distinct new approach.

Host: Sigal Samuel (@SigalSamuel), Senior Reporter, Vox

Guest: Martha Nussbaum, author; Ernst Freund Distinguished Service Professor of Philosophy, U. Chicago

References:

Justice for Animals: Our Collective Responsibility by Martha Nussbaum (Simon & Schuster; 2022)
Drawing the Line: Science and the Case for Animal Rights by Steven M. Wise (Basic; 2003)
Primates and Philosophers: How Morality Evolved by Frans de Waal (Princeton; 2006)
Animal Liberation: A New Ethics for Our Treatment of Animals by Peter Singer (1975)
Fellow Creatures: Our Obligations to Other Animals by Christine Korsgaard (Oxford; 2018)
Political Liberalism by John Rawls (1993)
The Universal Declaration of Human Rights (1948)
"Ag-Gag" Laws in the United States (Animal Legal Defense Fund)
Zoopolis: A Political Theory of Animal Rights by Sue Donaldson and Will Kymlicka (Oxford; 2011)

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This episode was made by:

Producer: Erikk Geannikis
Editor: Amy Drozdowska
Engineer: Patrick Boyd
Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall

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