Ep. 484: Cooking Noodles and Catching Permit with David Chang
Oct 9, 2023
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Renowned chef David Chang joins the podcast to discuss topics such as his love for ramen, the impact of irresponsible fishing practices, the history of ramen, and the challenges of running a successful restaurant. They also touch on the importance of hard work, the pursuit of balance, and the joy of fishing. Shop Momofuku goods for 20% off with a special discount code.
Hard work is the great equalizer in the culinary industry, surpassing natural talent.
Exploring and appreciating diverse culinary traditions is essential for growth and learning.
Fishing provides balance and escape from the pressures of the culinary world.
Work-life balance is a simultaneous commitment to work and personal life, not a 50-50 equilibrium.
Deep dives
Discovering the Passion for Cooking
After a series of experiences and a disillusionment with corporate jobs, the speaker decides to pursue his passion for cooking. He immerses himself in culinary school and starts working in renowned restaurants, including John George's and Kraft, to gain experience and learn from talented chefs. Although initially allergic to the hard work and not naturally gifted, he embraces the grind and becomes a sponge, constantly learning and improving.
Working in Japan and Experiencing Ramen
During his time in Japan, the speaker discovers a love for authentic ramen, which he had never experienced before. This moment becomes significant in his culinary journey, even though he didn't know it at the time. The unique flavors and techniques of Japanese cuisine start to resonate with him, and he begins to develop a deep appreciation for the country's culinary traditions.
The Importance of Hard Work in Culinary Success
The speaker believes that hard work is the great equalizer in the culinary industry. He emphasizes the importance of pouring oneself into the craft, practicing relentlessly, and fully immersing in the work. Regardless of natural talent, he believes that hard work can surpass and even exceed those who may seem more gifted. The speaker values the competitive and serious nature of the kitchen environment, the continuous pursuit of improvement, and the deep camaraderie among fellow chefs.
Embracing Different Culinary Traditions
The speaker highlights the importance of exploring various culinary traditions and being open to new experiences. He believes that each culinary culture has its own unique contributions and it's important to appreciate and learn from them. From Japanese ramen to traditional French cuisine, he embraces the diversity of flavors and techniques, recognizing the value of different culinary traditions.
Discovering the Joy of Fishing
The speaker discusses how they found a love for fishing, particularly fly fishing, and how it became a way to disconnect from the intense hustle of their career. They reflect on the satisfaction of catching their first fish on their own and the addictive nature of the sport. Fishing provided a sense of challenge and unpredictability, similar to jujitsu with nature. The speaker also shares their passion for permit fishing and the frustration and excitement it brings. Ultimately, fishing became a way to find balance and escape from the pressures of their work.
The Pleasure of Catching and Eating Fish
The speaker mentions some of the fish they enjoy catching and eating, such as snook and snapper. They describe the joy of grilling fish over fire and enjoying it with tortillas. They also express an interest in trying permit, a fish known for its challenging nature, but due to environmental concerns, they seek a guilt-free way to consume it. They discuss their fascination with the taste of permit and their preference for catching headless permit to use in their meals.
The Path to Balance
The speaker reflects on the concept of work-life balance and the pursuit of perfection. They question the traditional notions of balance and argue that it is not a 50-50 equilibrium, but rather a simultaneous commitment to two things. They discuss their own journey in finding balance between their intense career and personal life. They also consider the younger generation's perspective on work-life balance and the importance of finding a better balance that allows for dedication to both work and personal life.
Topics discussed: Eating David Chang's ramen in an area that no one has ever eaten David Chang's ramen; why Dave named his company Momofuku; the Korean guy who fly fishes the flats in Mexico; pregnancy frogs; the massively irresponsible dumping of 800,000 pogies; how Dave used to be a competitive golfer; when all the sales reps at your dad's golf store are hunters; permissions!; how inheriting success is a curse; a restaurant in Japan that’s been open for over 400 years; a 14th generation farmer probably knows what he’s doing; cooking turtles; the history of ramen; hard work as the greatest equalizer; how working in that kitchen was like working in a coal mine; the overbearing shuffling of plates; balance as being simultaneously committed to two things equally, all the time; opening the original Momofuku restaurant in NYC; permit fever; trout fishing to practice permit fishing; and more.
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