Can Science Be Efficient? The 264th Evolutionary Lens with Bret Weinstein and Heather Heying
Feb 15, 2025
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From Barcelona, the hosts explore trends in coughing and health post-COVID. They discuss the complexities of mRNA technology, emphasizing its risks in cancer treatment. The podcast delves into federal grants, highlighting how indirect costs create imbalances favoring expensive science. A philosophical twist on the Ship of Theseus sparks a conversation about identity and the importance of theoretical frameworks in science. Additionally, they engage in a thought-provoking dialogue on trans issues, advocating for meritocracy and inclusion in society.
01:33:10
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Quick takeaways
The podcast highlights a notable decrease in public coughing, suggesting behavioral changes from the COVID-19 pandemic may influence global health dynamics.
The discussion critiques the inefficient financial structures of scientific funding, revealing how indirect costs can compromise scientific integrity and prioritization of research.
A philosophical perspective on scientific inquiry emphasizes the necessity of solid theoretical foundations to guide empirical research and foster long-term scientific advancement.
Deep dives
Broadcasting from Barcelona
The episode opens with a light-hearted acknowledgment of the technical challenges faced while broadcasting from Barcelona. The speakers express their relief at finally being able to connect with their audience after delays caused by an illness in their production team. They humorously reference their use of an Airbnb for this live stream, noting that they have managed to overcome various obstacles to provide content. Despite the stripped-down nature of the podcast, there is a sense of determination to deliver quality discussion.
Changes in Public Health Observations
An intriguing observation about the apparent decrease in coughing in public spaces, particularly during winter travels, is explored. The speakers discuss how this contrasts sharply with previous years where coughing was ubiquitous in crowded areas like airports. They hypothesize that behavioral changes initiated during the COVID-19 pandemic may be influencing public health dynamics, suggesting that some individuals might be staying home when symptomatic due to a heightened social stigma. The conversation raises questions about the overall health of the population amidst these observations, suggesting complex underlying dynamics.
The Role of Science and Funding
The conversation shifts to a critique of the current state of scientific funding and the financial mechanisms behind research grants. There's an emphasis on how universities often receive significant indirect costs from federal grants, contributing to exaggerated budgets while potentially compromising scientific integrity. The speakers call attention to the pressure on researchers to secure funding, which could prioritize expensive, high-tech research projects over theoretical or fundamental science. This financial structure is argued to foster inefficiencies and a lack of innovative breakthroughs in various scientific fields.
Observations on Academic Governance
The discussion continues with insights into how the governance structures within universities have become skewed, impacting the quality of scientific inquiry. The speakers argue that shifting administrative priorities may lead to a dilution of true scientific meritocracy, as individuals focused on getting grants are prioritized over those doing foundational theoretical work. This depopulation of governance committees by scientists can cause misaligned institutional priorities, potentially undermining the pursuit of coherent scientific knowledge. The impact of these changes on the integrity of academic institutions and scientific disciplines is profound.
The Philosophical Underpinnings of Science
The podcast delves into the philosophical nature of scientific inquiry and the distinction between theoretical and empirical science. The speakers clarify that a solid theoretical foundation is crucial for guiding effective empirical research and innovation. They argue that fundamental research, perceived as less immediately practical, has long-term implications for scientific advancement and should not be undervalued. The essence of science is identified as a nonlinear exploration rather than a straightforward process, emphasizing the necessity of embracing complexity in research.
Challenges in Modern Military Policies
The conversation also touches on recent discussions surrounding the inclusion of transgender individuals in military roles, emphasizing the need for meritocracy. The speakers weigh the importance of capability and patriotism in military personnel against the backdrop of modern societal changes regarding gender identity. They reflect on the potential complexities of implementing policies that balance inclusivity and operational effectiveness. The topic is framed as a nuanced issue that intersects with broader discussions about societal values and individual rights within institutional frameworks.
In this week’s episode, we discuss changes in global health from Barcelona, as indicated by how much public coughing is taking place now. This segues into a discussion of cancer, mRNA, trade-offs, and complex systems. Then: what DOGE needs to understand about science, which is not inherently efficient. What are indirect costs on federal grants, why are they necessary, and why do they vary? And: how does having indirect costs create perverse incentives by university administrators to privilege scientists over non-scientists, and Big Science over (regular) science. Specifically, science in the West is failing because fast, expensive empirical science is nearly always favored over slow, cheap, and/or theoretical science. Universities get richer, and Big Scientists get promoted, but grad students don’t learn how to be scientists, and we all lose out on having basic scientific questions answered, which will ultimately be our downfall. Also: the Ship of Theseus.
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Mentioned in this episode:
Evolutionary Lens #84, June 2021 (Hey YouTube: Divide by Zero): https://odysee.com/@BretWeinstein:f/EvoLens84:b
Research University Classifications for 2025: https://carnegieclassifications.acenet.edu/carnegie-classification/research-designations-faqs/
NSF’s Higher Education Research and Development (HERD) Survey: https://ncses.nsf.gov/surveys/higher-education-research-development/2023
