Are Roth Conversions Necessary? | Cody Garrett and Sean Mullaney | Ep 581

51 snips

Jan 12, 2026

Guest

Cody Garrett

Guest

Sean Mullaney

Financial planners Sean Mullaney and Cody Garrett dive into the world of taxable Roth conversions. They clarify the differences between various Roth strategies and bust myths around retirement taxation. The duo discusses optimal conversion timing, emphasizing personal financial priorities over societal pressure. They share practical advice on managing taxes during retirement and reconsidering the necessity of conversions. Tune in for valuable insights on maximizing your retirement benefits and making informed financial choices.

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INSIGHT

Taxable Conversions Are Distinct And Durable

Taxable Roth conversions create immediate taxable income and should be distinguished from non-taxable backdoor or mega backdoor Roth tactics.
The conversion mechanism is broadly available and intentionally taxable, so it is unlikely to disappear as a concept.

ADVICE

Don't Convert While You're Working

Avoid doing large taxable Roth conversions while you have W-2 income because they stack on top of already-high working-year taxes.
Use income-disruption years (low or no W-2) as the primary windows for conversions during accumulation.

ANECDOTE

Career Change Opened Low-Tax Conversion Window

Cody converted traditional 403(b) funds to Roth when his household W-2 income dropped to about $40,000 after a career change.
He completed conversions in the 10%–12% brackets during that income-disruption period.

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Brad hosts Sean Mullaney and Cody Garrett to dive deep into the topic of taxable Roth conversions, including key distinctions between various Roth strategies. The discussion emphasizes the strategic nature of these conversions during retirement, common misconceptions, and the importance of prioritizing personal financial success over societal pressures. Listeners will gain practical insights into tax management and gain clarity on when and if to pursue Roth conversions in their financial plans.

Disclaimer: Sean's discussions on the ChooseFI podcast and articles and messages published on ChooseFI.com are intended for general educational purposes and are not tax, legal, or investment advice for any individual. The ChooseFI podcast and its owners, employees, and agents do not endorse Sean Mullaney, Mullaney Financial & Tax, Inc., or their services.

Timestamps & Key Topics:

00:00:56 - Introduction to Guests
- Hosts introduce Sean Mullaney and Cody Garrett, authors of Tax Planning To and Through Early Retirement.
00:02:11 - Understanding Taxable Roth Conversions
- Definitions and purpose of taxable Roth conversions vs. backdoor Roths.
00:12:07 - Taxable Roth Conversions During Working Years
- Why taxable conversions are generally discouraged for those with a job.
- Discussion on 'income disruption years' as an exception.
00:15:13 - Strategies for Retirement Income
- Exploring income sources and tax brackets in retirement.
00:19:10 - Roth Conversion Decisions in Retirement
- Discussion on RMDs and managing taxable income effectively in retirement.
01:04:17 - Conclusion and Resources
- Recap of key insights and suggestions for further financial planning.

Key Insights:

Taxable Roth Conversions vs. Backdoor Roths
- Taxable conversions create taxable income and can be beneficial, while backdoor Roths are a mechanism to contribute when income limits apply.
Ideal Times for Conversions
- Typically not advisable during high-income years; consider during low-income years or life events causing income disruption.
Tax Burdens in Retirement
- Many retirees experience lower tax burdens than expected; RMDs are manageable for most.
Roth Conversions and Future Planning
- Primary beneficiaries are often oneself and heirs; focus on financial success rather than tax liabilities for future generations.
Avoiding Procrastination through Optimization
- Optimization can become procrastination; focus on higher impact decisions for financial health rather than getting lost in tax details.

Actionable Takeaways:

Evaluate Current Tax Bracket: Assess your taxable income before considering a Roth conversion (00:12:07).
Timing Is Key: Consider performing Roth conversions during lower income years (00:12:50).
Understand RMDs: Evaluate the necessity of Roth conversions in the context of required minimum distributions (00:22:28).
Consult Professionals: Consider professional guidance for personalized strategies aligned with your long-term financial goals (01:04:01).

Featured Quotes:

"Retirement accounts exist to ensure financial success in retirement." - Sean Mullaney (01:04:01)
"Roth conversions can enhance tax efficiency but are not required." - Cody Garrett (00:42:34)
"Don't let fear guide you in financial decisions." - Brad (01:05:17)

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