本期节目与大家分享最近将上映的《谍网追凶》，黑水公园还很荣幸的采访到了电影主演，小王与两位主创就影片的一些问题进行了交流，采访部分之后，艾文、金花和蛋挞也讨论了主演拉米、瑞秋的角色、电影中的特工技能、数据分析的重要性，以及影片中的情感线和真实感等内容。

【时间轴】
访谈部分
01:04 小王用英文采访主演的录音
08:20 英文采访的翻译
节目正片
21:31 第一次杀人的呕吐与道德困境，特工也是普通人
36:03 电影回归真实世界，讲述特工的心理创伤和感情世界
50:12 关于CIA与FBI的介绍，当一名特工有多难？
58:54 特工的技能要求：语言能力、学习能力、说服能力
01:11:35 一张照片定位城市，生活用品也能当武器

A. For Rami and Rachel

This film is quite different from traditional spy movies. Could both of you describe, in one sentence, the most defining characteristic of each other's character?

1.问两位主演

本片是一部与传统间谍片非常不同的电影。两位主演能否用一句话，来形容对方角色最大的特点。

Rachel：

I mean, Heller is a certified genius.I think that's that's hard to argue with.

But he's also somebody who trusts his own instinct and when pushed to the brink, he manages to utilize his own smarts and intellect and perhaps unusual way of dealing with these familiar circumstances, or unfamiliar to him, but familiar to us the audience, to um to achieve his goals.He trusts himself and and that he's very unusual in a character at the center of a film like this.

我的意思是，海勒是个公认的天才，这一点恐怕没人能否认。

但他也是那种非常相信自己直觉的人。当他被逼到绝境时，他能利用自己的聪明才智，以及也许是非常独特的方式来应对这些情境——这些情境对他来说或许陌生，但对我们观众来说却很熟悉——从而实现他的目标。他相信自己，而这一点，在像这种电影的主角身上是非常罕见的。

Rami

And I see Sarah as a brilliant worldly uh vibrant human being who uh can probably excel at a on every level.

I imagine if you teach this person how to play chess uh, even though you've been playing it your entire life, it will still be it was still find a way to beat you and probably charm you doing it all the way through. Um are there there are also someone who in the film is selfless in that, you know, they they do the ultimate act of uh sacrifice and courage in terms of you know offering themselves up in in order to save someone else's life and I think that's what could be more moving than that. A very unique, unique soul uh, that anyone would be lucky to have in their lives. Especially CharlieHeller.

在我看来，莎拉是一个聪明、见多识广、充满活力的人，她在各个方面都可能表现出色。

我想象如果你教她下棋——哪怕你自己已经下了一辈子了——她还是能找到办法打败你，而且在整个过程中还会用她的魅力让你心甘情愿。

她在影片中也是一个无私的人，她做出了最极致的牺牲和勇气的行为——将自己奉献出去，以拯救另一个人的生命。我觉得，没有什么比这更令人感动了。

她是一个非常独特的灵魂，任何人如果能拥有她在生命中，都是一种幸运，尤其是查理·海勒。

B. For Rami and Rachel

In the film, Charlie seeks revenge on the villains in highly imaginative ways. Which of these unique methods of revenge left the strongest impression on both of you?

2.问两位主演

在电影中，男主为女主报仇的过程中，分别对反派人物进行了复仇，这些方式充满想象力。请问两位对于这种特殊的复仇手法哪个让你们最为印象深刻。

Rami

I remember when I first read the script, uh oh, I don't want to give too much away because it's there there's spoilers, but uh still need to see them way, right?They still need to see them over here, but there's a particular element of um using Oh, I don't even know how to describe it.I know what you're talking about, actually. A physic I can't even describe it without maybe being offensive.I don't want to.Um I can't I can't spoil any of these.It's too difficult, but they are very, very ingenious ways of uh using someone's mind. Uh, he has such a cerebral nature and a resourceful brain that allows him to do extraordinary things , but yes, one involves uh I I can't do it.I'm so sorry.I'm trying to work my way around it, but it it gives away too much.

我记得我第一次读到剧本的时候，呃，哦哦，我不想剧透太多，因为里面确实有一些关键情节……但，嗯，他们还是得亲自去看，对吧？他们这边也还没看呢。不过，里面有一个特别的设定是关于……呃，我甚至不知道该怎么形容它。

我知道你在说什么，确实有点难以解释，一个物理现象？但我甚至不知道该怎么说，可能说出来会冒犯到别人。我不想那样。

嗯，我真的不能剧透，太难了。但那些设定真的非常非常巧妙，尤其是关于如何使用人的思维。他有一种非常理性而又充满创造力的头脑，使他能够做出一些非凡的事情。但确实，其中一个情节涉及到……我不行，我说不出来，真的很抱歉。我试图绕开剧透来描述，但这样说得太多了。

Rachel

in this genre, you you typically you see a lot of boys with toys, you know, that that's sort of the forgive how reductive that statement is, but a lot of men running around with guns and and shooting each other, and that's just not Charlie's strength.

And so all of the very unique ways in which he avenges his wife's death come from a really authentic place within this character and there's something about that that feels really aspirational in a different way.

It makes you feel as an audience member at home, like, you might be able to use your own set of skills and strength to hopefully not, uh, you know, achieve such extraordinary circumstances, but but to get through even the toughest stuff in your own life. Spoiler free.

在这个类型的影片中，你通常会看到很多“带着玩具的男孩”——请原谅我用这么简化的说法——也就是很多男人拿着枪到处跑、互相射击。但查理并不是靠这些取胜的人。

他为妻子复仇的方式完全不同，都是从他内心非常真实的地方出发的。这种方式有一种不一样的激励感。

作为观众，你会觉得，也许你也可以用你自己的一套技能和力量，来应对生活中的困难——当然，不一定要经历像他那样极端的情境——但哪怕只是面对你自己的艰难时刻，也能找到一种力量。

（没有剧透哦。）

C. For Rami

As Charlie gradually steps into the mindset of an assassin, what other qualities do you think define him beyond his exceptional intelligence? How did you bring these traits and characteristics to life in your performance?

3.问Rami

Charlie在不断渐渐进入杀手状态除了超高的智商你认为他还具备哪些素质？你是怎样刻画这个人物的这些素质的

Rami

I think we discover a a um really deep sensitivity humanity to this human being. um that sometimes we don't associate with people who uh have a job of of working as an analyst of sorts or sitting behind a a computer or or uh yeah, working their way through in inordinate amount of information on a daily basis, um we can see them sometimes as robotic, but this is a deeply uh human individual who feels on a raw level and uh and that's something that I don't often see in these films and uh and throughout the process of what he goes through in terms of seeking justice, he's still uh confronted with the nature of that type of depth of character that he has. And and has to confront himself, uh, day in and day out with what he's willing to do, what he's capable of doing and when when he's had enough, when enough is finally enough. uh, do you can you ever seek solent solace in what you're doing? Uh, it does send him on the mission of a lifetime, though, and uh that's what is is at the heart of this it propels him into a situation that you could only see on a big screen. You can see it other places, but it warrants seeing in the theater in the cinema.

我觉得我们在这个角色身上发现了一种非常深沉的敏感与人性——而这种品质，往往不会让人联想到那些分析师之类的角色，他们的工作是坐在电脑前，每天处理海量信息。我们有时会把这样的人看作冷冰冰的、像机器一样，但他却是一个极具人性、情感非常真切的人。

这种原始层面的感受力，是我在这类电影中很少见到的。而在他追求正义的过程中，他始终要面对自己性格中这种深度的存在。他不得不日复一日地直面内心：自己愿意做什么，能够做到什么，什么时候会觉得“够了”，真正的“再也承受不了了”。

你是否能在你所做的事情中找到慰藉？这是他必须不断追问自己的问题。但这场挣扎，也将他推上了一段堪称“人生使命”的旅程。这也是整部影片的核心——它把他带入一个只有在大银幕上才能真正体现的境地。你也许能在其他地方看到这个故事，但它理应在电影院里被观看、被感受。

EP #516 INCHSTONES - RUN & HIDE