Guest

Alexander Petros

Panelist

Richard Littauer

Show Notes

Join host Richard Littauer as he dives into the world of open source sustainability with Alexander Petros, core maintainer of htmx and freelance software engineer. Today, they explore the evolution of HTML, the power of lightweight web protocols, and the broader implications of open-source software for the future of the web. Alexander shares his insights on building sustainable digital infrastructure, using simple tools effectively, and rethinking web development paradigms. Hit download now!

[00:01:40] Alexander explains htmx as a lightweight front-end JavaScript library enhancing HTML capabilities.

[00:03:16] There’s a discussion about HTML’s design for behavior and interactivity and a comparison of traditional HTML with modern practices, including JavaScript-heavy frameworks.

[00:05:50] We hear the origins of htmx, how it started as a jQuery extension called intercooler.js, and the evolution during the pandemic to a standalone library.

[00:09:16] Alexander explains building for the long term, why lightweight, adaptable systems matter, and reflects on the durability of early web standards and tools.

[00:12:17] Richard inquires about what Alexander envisions a hundred years from now with htmx.

[00:14:57] Balancing simplicity and scalability is discussed about HTML’s capabilities for large-scale applications and why many developers overcomplicate solutions unnecessarily.

[00:17:40] Alexander critiques over-reliance on tools like Docker and large-scale build systems and advocates for simpler development environments like SQLite.

[00:19:42] Alexander talks about why open source frameworks like React solve organizational problems for tech giants.

[00:25:42] Richard tells us he’s been spending time on the International Code of Zoological Nomenclature as a foundational system for species classification and Alexander speaks about the challenges of contributing to protocols governed by large corporations and why HTML remains a uniquely sustainable and universal platform.

[00:28:22] Richard asks Alexander if he’s thought about the 1000 year approach to the work he’s doing.

[00:32:21] Find out where you can follow Alexander and his blog online.

Quotes

[00:13:11] “The web is going to be the most effective delivery mechanism for software for the next couple of decades.”

[00:14:12] “If we look at the tools that we have available today, which tools can we use that are most likely to get us to that fifty, hundred year useful piece of software?”

[00:24:06] “Different structural project models produce very different software.”

Spotlight

• [00:33:11] Richard’s spotlight is the International Code of Zoological Nomenclature.
• [00:34:07] Alexander’s spotlight is better-sqlite3.

Links

• SustainOSS
• podcast@sustainoss.org
• richard@sustainoss.org
• SustainOSS Discourse
• SustainOSS Mastodon
• Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute)
• Richard Littauer Socials
• Alexander Petros Website
• Alexander Petros LinkedIn
• Unplanned Obsolescence (Alexander’s Blog)
• Building the Hundred-Year Web Service with htmx- Alexander Petros (YouTube)
• htmx
• Sustain Podcast-Episode 238: Julia Evans and Wizard Zines
• xkcd-927: How Standards Proliferate
• Julia Evans Blog
• International Code of Zoological Nomenclature (ICZN)
• better-sqlite3

Credits

• Produced by Richard Littauer

• Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound

• Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound

Special Guest: Alexander Petros.

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