People and Projects Podcast: Project Management Podcast PPP 461 | Why Your Wellness Perks Aren't Working (And What Actually Does), with Dr. Patricia Grabarek
In this episode, Andy welcomes Dr. Patricia Grabarek, co-author of Leading for Wellness: How to Create a Team Culture Where Everyone Thrives. Patricia is an industrial-organizational psychologist and co-founder of Workr Beeing. She brings her expertise in workplace wellness, leadership behavior, and employee engagement to this timely conversation about how leaders can improve not just productivity, but people’s lives.
They explore the surprising truth that employee wellness isn’t about perks like step challenges or mindfulness apps--it’s about leadership. Patricia shares the difference between Generator leaders and Extinguisher leaders, how “Struggle Statements” foster psychological safety, and the simple yet powerful behaviors that make a lasting impact on your team’s wellbeing. From practical strategies for setting boundaries to powerful recovery practices, this conversation offers a playbook for leaders who want to create sustainable performance through human-centered leadership.
If you’re looking for insights on how to lead with empathy while driving results, this episode is for you!
Sound Bites- “What we learned is that people think about wellness holistically. It's very individual.”
- “You can’t yoga your way out of a toxic work environment.”
- “Most leaders don’t wake up and think, 'I'm going to extinguish my team today.' It happens slowly and unconsciously.”
- “I don't think anyone's waking up and being like, I wanna make work suck for everybody around me today!”
- “Leaders are people. They fail at things. They're not always doing well. And when you have this ideal leader, that's the persona you're putting on, then your employees don't trust you.”
- “Your behavior as a leader is the most powerful wellness intervention you can offer.”
- “When leaders share their struggles, it creates a ripple effect of trust.”
- “If you want your team to respect boundaries, you have to model them first.”
- “Employees don’t leave jobs—they leave leaders who extinguish them.”
- 00:00 Introduction
- 01:59 Start of Interview
- 02:11 What is Wellness?
- 04:05 Generators vs. Extinguishers
- 07:30 When Someone is an Inconsistent Extinguisher
- 08:57 What are Struggle Statements?
- 12:50 Recognizing Burnout and Its Signs
- 15:51 Strategies for Post-Work Recovery
- 18:12 The Role of Control With Stress
- 19:57 An Example of Someone Transforming How They Lead for Wellness
- 22:11 Organizational Wellness: What's Not Working?
- 23:53 Authenticity and Role Modeling in Leadership
- 26:20 Balancing Work and Life: Integrators vs. Segmenters
- 27:06 Fostering Wellness at Home
- 27:51 End of Interview
- 28:20 Andy Comments After the Interview
- 34:35 Outtakes
You can learn more about Patricia and her work at WorkrBeeing.com/book.
For more learning on this topic, check out:
- Episode 448 with Marie-Helene Pelletier about her book The Resilience Plan.
- Episode 398 with Dr. Neha Sangwan about her book on burnout.
- Episode 324 with Jim Harter from Gallup about building resilient cultures.
Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast!
Talent Triangle: Power Skills
Topics: Leadership, Employee Wellness, Psychological Safety, Burnout, Team Culture, Vulnerability, Work-Life Balance, Authenticity, Empathy, Boundaries, Recovery, Organizational Health
The following music was used for this episode:
Music: Summer Morning Full Version by MusicLFiles License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license
Music: Chillhouse by Frank Schroeter License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license