

Ep #1: Copy-First vs Design-First Websites
Aug 15, 2025
Discover why starting with compelling copy could be the key to an effective website. The hosts tackle the copy-first vs. design-first debate, stressing how strong messaging can lead to higher conversions. They reveal the pitfalls of prioritizing aesthetics over clarity, using amusing analogies to illustrate their points. The conversation emphasizes the power of storytelling to enhance user journeys and discusses the surprising results of 'ugly' websites sometimes outperforming pretty ones. Tune in for insightful strategies to elevate your online presence!
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Website Purpose Is Persuasive Messaging
- A website's main purpose is to communicate compellingly so visitors take action.
- Corey Haines insists message (copy) matters more than aesthetics for conversions.
Template Fill-In Failed Repeatedly
- Corey tried filling a template and kept iterating without success.
- He found the copy he wanted didn't fit the design and both suffered.
Start With Copy, Then Design
- Start with copy so the design supports the message rather than constraining it.
- Zach Stevens recommends structuring content: problem, solution, steps, and proof.