Chatter: The Legacy of “The Hunt for Red October” with Katherine Voyles

Dec 17, 2024

Katherine Voyles, a cultural writer focused on national security, dives into her passion for 'The Hunt for Red October' alongside Shane Harris. They explore the film's profound cultural impact and character dynamics, uncovering its unexpected Christmas movie status. The conversation highlights how the film shaped the spy fiction genre, particularly in its portrayal of relatable characters amidst Cold War tension. They also share a love for martinis and delve into the evolution of espionage narratives, mirroring contemporary societal issues.

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Episode notes

Intro

00:00 • 2min

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Exploring 'The Hunt for Red October'

02:06 • 5min

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Navigating Cold War Intrigue

07:36 • 24min

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Beyond the Surface: Decoding 'The Hunt for Red October'

31:58 • 17min

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The Evolution of Spy Fiction Post-Cold War

49:14 • 11min

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The Unseen Shadows of Espionage

59:47 • 18min

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Literature, Cocktails, and Historical Insights

01:17:59 • 6min

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Reflecting on Leadership and Stability in a Destabilized World

The book alternates between U.S. and Russian perspectives, detailing the CIA's operation to use 'Doctor Zhivago' as political propaganda. It follows Irina Drozdov, a typist at the CIA, and her role in the operation, as well as the story of Boris Pasternak and his mistress Olga Ivinskaya, who inspired the character of Lara in 'Doctor Zhivago'. The novel explores the persecution of Pasternak by the Russian government and the significant roles women played in the early CIA.

American Spy

Lauren Wilkinson

American Spy is a debut novel by Lauren Wilkinson that combines elements of a spy thriller, family drama, and romance. The story follows Marie Mitchell, a brilliant but overlooked black woman working for the FBI in the 1980s. Marie is assigned to a shadowy task force aimed at undermining Thomas Sankara, the charismatic revolutionary president of Burkina Faso. As she gets close to Sankara, Marie must confront her own moral sense versus her duty, leading to a complex web of loyalty, betrayal, and personal identity. The novel explores themes of race, gender, imperialism, and the complexities of being a spy, all set against the backdrop of the Cold War and real historical events.

The Sympathizer

Viet Thanh Nguyen

Francois Chau

The Sympathizer is the story of a man of two minds, a captain in the South Vietnamese national police who is secretly a mole for the National Liberation Front. The novel explores his life between two worlds, from his education in America to his return to Vietnam to fight for the Communist cause. It delves into themes of loyalty, identity, and the complexities of the Vietnam War, offering a unique perspective on the conflict and its legacy in literature, film, and contemporary politics.

Our Man in Havana

Graham Greene

Set in Havana on the eve of the communist revolution, 'Our Man in Havana' follows James Wormold, an English expatriate who sells vacuum cleaners. Desperate for money to support his teenage daughter Milly's extravagant lifestyle, Wormold is recruited by the British Secret Service. Lacking any real intelligence, he fabricates reports using newspaper articles and a country club directory, creating an elaborate deception. However, his fictions start to take on a life of their own, leading to real-world consequences, including the targeting of innocent people. The novel is a satire on the absurdities of espionage and the problems caused by the fabrication of intelligence. It blends humor with a tragic undertone, reflecting Greene's critique of intelligence services based on his own experiences.

The Hunt for Red October

Tom Clancy

The Hunt for Red October is Tom Clancy's debut novel, published in 1984. It follows Soviet submarine captain Marko Ramius as he plots to defect to the United States with his advanced ballistic missile submarine, the Red October. The novel introduces CIA analyst Jack Ryan, who must prove his theory that Ramius intends to defect rather than launch a surprise attack. The story involves a complex cat-and-mouse game between the Soviet Navy, the U.S. Navy, and the CIA, highlighting the technological and strategic aspects of Cold War naval warfare. The book is known for its detailed technical descriptions and its sympathetic portrayal of both Soviet and American characters.

Shane Harris makes no secret about his love for the film version of this Cold War submarine thriller, based on the Tom Clancy novel. It’s his favorite movie. So he was delighted to welcome fellow obsessive Katherine Voyles to the podcast. A PhD in English, Voyles writes about national security in culture, as well as the culture of national security. She and Shane talked about why they love the movie, their favorite scenes and characters, and how the story influenced--maybe even created--an entire genre of fiction. They also discussed why it is, actually, a Christmas movie, and their mutual admiration for the martini.

Voyles’s writing has appeared in in the Los Angeles Review of Books, Foreign Policy, Task &

Purpose, Small Wars Journal, and War on the Rocks. She also works for the Department of Defense.

In addition to the greatest movie of all time, essays, TV shows, books, and restaurants discussed in this episode include:

Colson Whitehead’s “The Way We Live Now” https://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/11/magazine/the-way-we-live-now-11-11-01-lost-and-found.html

Deutschland 83 https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4445154/

Garrett Graff’s The Only Plane in the Sky https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Only-Plane-in-the-Sky/Garrett-M-Graff/9781501182211

Lauren Wilkinson’s American Spy https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/253471/american-spy-by-lauren-wilkinson/

Saltie Girl https://www.saltiegirl.com/

Chatter is a production of Lawfare and Goat Rodeo. This episode was produced and edited by Cara Shillenn of Goat Rodeo. Podcast theme by David Priess, featuring music created using Groovepad.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

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