Lea Ypi, author of 'The Handover', discusses the power of the state, the impact of AI on human-corporate relationships, and the need to understand artificial agents and institutions in our modern world.
The podcast explores the parallels between AI machines and artificial human-like entities of states and corporations, emphasizing that these structures are shaped by the mechanics of their agencies and human input.
It highlights the interplay between states, corporations, and algorithmic technologies, discussing how big tech has led to the state adopting corporate-like characteristics with significant implications for democracy and human agency.
The episode emphasizes the need to change the structural conditions and empower human input within artificial agents to shape their outcomes, distinguishing the general purpose of states from the profit-seeking purpose of corporations.
Deep dives
The fear of AI-powered machines
This podcast episode discusses the contemporary fear of building machines with human-like qualities, AI machines with superpowers that may exceed human control. The author argues that this fear is not new and draws parallels between these AI machines and the artificial human-like entities of states and corporations. While AI is a focus, the book mainly explores the historical and current powers of states and corporations. The author emphasizes that these structures are not inherently value-less, but they are shaped by the mechanics of their agencies and their human input.
The dominance of artificial agency
The episode explores the dominant influence of artificial agency in modern politics and highlights the similarities between states and corporations as artificial agents. It discusses the superpowers of these entities, such as war-fighting capabilities, debt sustainability, and economic control. The author acknowledges that while these entities can be captured or controlled by elites, it is essential to recognize the distinctive qualities and dynamics between them. The episode also raises concerns about the diminishing role of human agency in the face of these dominant artificial agents.
The interplay between states, corporations, and AI
The podcast delves into the complex relationships between states, corporations, and algorithmic technologies. It examines how these artificial agents interact and shape our world, considering both historical and contemporary contexts. The author explains that while some states exert control over corporations, the rise of big tech has also led to the state itself adopting corporate-like characteristics. The interplay between these agents and the increased power of big tech has significant implications for democracy and human agency.
The need to humanize artificial agents
The episode addresses the challenges and possibilities of humanizing artificial agents. It highlights the dangers of abdicating responsibility to machine-like entities and emphasizes the importance of recognizing the distinctive qualities and constraints of artificial agency. The author suggests that changing the structural conditions and empowering human input within these systems is essential for shaping the outcomes of these artificial agents. It distinguishes the general purpose of states from the profit-seeking purpose of corporations, stressing the need to prioritize values and structure when seeking to reclaim human influence.
The challenge of reconfiguring power structures
The conversation touches upon the difficulty of reconfiguring power structures and addressing the dominance of artificial agents. It discusses the contingent nature of the relationships between states, corporations, and AI, highlighting how historical circumstances and elite control impact this interplay. The episode argues for a pragmatic and realistic approach, recognising the limits of merely replacing elites or pursuing alternative models. It calls for a renewed focus on the interplay between structure and agency to shape a more responsive and humanized world.
This week Lea Ypi joins David to talk about some of the ideas in his new book, The Handover: How We Gave Control of Our Lives to Corporations, States and AIs. They discuss how to think about the power of the state in the modern world: Can it be changed? Can it be controlled? Can it be anything other than capitalist? Plus, how will AI alter the relationship between human beings and the corporate machines that rule our world?
To order the Handover and support independent bookshops, please use the code HANDOVER at checkout here.