95. Kevin Goetz and Bob Levin: Building Better Greenlights: Audience Insight, Testing, and Creative Confidence

This episode is about decision-making; and how filmmakers, producers, and executives can make more effective, more impactful creative choices under uncertainty. Kevin Goetz and Bob Levin argue that most films don’t fail because they lack quality or ambition, but because key decisions around budget, positioning, and audience fit are made without enough clarity. Drawing on decades of experience in audience insight and testing, they unpack how better greenlight decisions come from understanding what a film is, who it is for, and the scale at which it can genuinely succeed. Rather than treating testing as a verdict on creativity, the conversation reframes it as a decision-support capability: a way to reduce blind spots, align stakeholders, and give filmmakers the confidence to make braver, more grounded creative choices. Used well, insight doesn’t dilute vision, it strengthens it. As Kevin puts it: “Every movie, if made and marketed for the right price, should make money.” For anyone involved in development, financing, or creative leadership, this episode explores how better decisions earlier in the process can dramatically change outcomes later on. About Kevin Goetz Kevin Goetz is the founder and CEO of Screen Engine, a global leader in entertainment research and strategy serving all the major film studios, television networks, and streaming services. Throughout his career, he has been at the forefront of Hollywood, having personally tested over 5,000 film titles, where his work significantly impacts how movies are made, marketed, and released. In 2024, Kevin received American Cinematheque's prestigious Power of Cinema Award for his contributions to the film industry. He is the author of two books: the bestselling Audience•ology: How Moviegoers Shape the Films We Love (Simon & Schuster, 2021), offering an inside look at the power of audience pre-release movie test screenings, and How to Score in Hollywood (Simon & Schuster, November 2025), exploring the secrets to success in the movie business. Kevin brings his expertise to life as the host of the popular podcast, Don’t Kill the Messenger (Apple Top 100), and continues educating the filmmaking community through keynote speeches and global presentations. He has produced twelve TV movies, including the Emmy-winning Wild Iris, and the 2026 documentary Children in the Fire. A member of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences, the Television Academy, and the Producers Guild of America, Kevin also serves on the boards of six nonprofit organizations. He currently resides in Beverly Hills with his husband, Neil, a producer and former creative advertising executive, and their labradoodle, Kasha. About Bob Levin Bob Levin is a legendary movie marketing executive, having for over two decades holding the position of president, worldwide marketing at first Disney, then Sony and MGM. As well as being a key member of each studio’s greenlight committee, he led the advertising, publicity, promotion, and research programs that helped launch hundreds of films, breaking numerous box office records throughout his career. Bob came out of semi-retirement when Kevin Goetz invited him to join Screen Engine/ASI as president and chief operating officer, where he has played a pivotal role in the company’s continued success. His first book, How to Score in Hollywood, cowritten with Kevin, reveals the secrets to a movie’s success and profitability, exploring how smart, data-driven decisions—from development to release—help filmmakers minimize risks and maximize returns. Bob lives in Los Angeles with his wife, Hilda Wynn.