The Joe Rogan Experience #2432 - Josh Dubin
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Dec 30, 2025 
Josh Dubin, Executive Director at the Perlmutter Center for Legal Justice, dives into the complex world of wrongful convictions and forensic issues. He details the shocking Perlmutter case where DNA evidence was mishandled, leading to wrongful implications. The discussion also highlights the emotional toll of legal advocacy and the struggles for clemency. Josh critiques the flawed clemency process, the impact of immigration enforcement, and the necessity of reforming systemic injustices within the criminal justice system.
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DNA Theft At A Deposition
- Josh Dubin described the Perlmutter DNA case where a neighbor stole DNA at a deposition and an unaccredited lab produced misleading results.
- The lawsuit won a $50 million verdict that restored Ike and Lori Perlmutter's reputations and exposed forensic vulnerabilities.
Forensics Vulnerable To Bias
- Dubin warned that DNA and even fingerprint analysis can become subjective when analysts know a suspect.
- Science becomes vulnerable when human bias influences interpretation of supposedly objective tests.
Smoking Gun But Wrongfully Convicted
- Josh recounted Nelson Cruz's case where a smoking gun was found with another man but Cruz was convicted after corrupt practices by detective Louis Scarcella.
- Post-conviction review exposed false witnesses, a judge with undiagnosed Alzheimer's, and ongoing efforts for relief.