About the Episode: Studies show that Americans feel less connected and more divided than ever before. Celeste Headlee, an award winning journalist, joins us to explore how we can navigate the many hard conversations that are happening these days.

About our Guest: In her 20-year career in public radio, Celeste appeared on NPR, PRI, CNN, and the BBC. She has been the Executive Producer of On Second Thought for Georgia Public Broadcasting, and anchored shows including Tell Me More, Talk of the Nation, All Things Considered, and Weekend Edition at NPR.

Celeste is also the author of two wonderful books: We Need To Talk: How To Have Conversations That Matter and Do Nothing: How to Break Away from Overworking, Overdoing, and Underliving.

Here's a summary of George Lakoff's framing theory that was mentioned during our conversation.

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Key Topics:

1:30: “Pandemic okay.”

4:45: Being a good talker vs. being a good conversationalist.

7:15: Why intelligent people can struggle to be good conversationalists.

11:30: Working with the inevitable presence of bias.

14:15: Facts, feelings, and frame theory.

18:00: Metacognition and confirmation bias.

22:45: Do facts change people’s opinions?

24:45: Making it easy for people to change their mind.

31:00: Maintaining our mental health inside hard conversations.

35:45: “Bothsides-ism”

40:00: How to engage when someone’s argument isn’t based on facts you agree with.

45:00: Doing less to do more.

50:00: The power of weak ties, and the negative impact of too much tech.

53:00: A message to your younger self.

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