TCC Podcast #259: Building a Copy Agency with Chris Orzechowski

Chris Orzechowski is back on the show for the 259th episode of The Copywriter Club podcast. Chris has shifted his business into an agency and he’s become known as an expert E-Commerce Email Strategist. Chris breaks down what it looks like to run an agency without diluting the client experience. If an agency business model has been on your mind, tune into this episode. Here’s how it all goes down: How Chris launched an agency at the beginning of a pandemic. The ins and outs of running an agency and who should run an agency. Why building an agency can come with a lot of relearning. The different types of agencies and which could be right for you. Solving agency problems. Is there a difference? Assessing the goals and milestones when running an agency. Do you have to dilute your work or client experience in an agency model? What does profit look like inside an agency? The different types of lead generation. What will work for you? How to hire and manage a team. Finding your strengths and weaknesses and executing an action plan. The 4 tools you need to start running a business today. The importance of SOPs and how it will create clear processes in your business. What does it take to write a book? Is it as difficult as you may think? How to get the upper hand in blogs and speaking gigs. The power of shifting your business when something isn’t working. Building authority and becoming known as the expert. How does it actually happen? How to make big vision goals less overwhelming and actionable. How to look at the big picture when you start to spiral into the unknown. Copywriters and email lists: Do you need one? The strategy you need to implement for email marketing. Are lead magnets still relevant? Advice for anyone who feels comparisonitis. – Hint: Patience is essential. Even if an agency isn’t on your radar, this episode will give you actionable tips on how to run and grow your business. Hit the play button or read the transcript below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Chris's website Full Transcript: Kira:  Long time listeners will know this about us already, but occasionally we like to bring back quests who we've interviewed before to see what's been going on in their businesses since the last time we chatted. Often business moves in ways they didn't predict when we spoke a couple of years ago. And we're doing it again this week. Chris Orzechowski is our guest for this episode of the Copywriter Club podcast, and as you'll see Chris has a very different business than the one he talked about when we interviewed him before. Rob:  But before we jump into this interview, this podcast is sponsored by the Copywriter Think Tank, that's our mastermind for copywriters and other marketers who want to think outside the box. Wow, we're using a cliché to talk about thinking outside the box, that's so inside the box. But, if you want to build new offers and revenue streams in your business, then the Copywriter Think Tank is the kind of place that might just be for you. So Kira, you asked me this last week, I'm going to ask you, why do you think the think tank helps copywriters experience real results? Kira:  Yeah. What comes to my mind first is that we help copywriters go from feeling like a business owner and acting like a business owner and thinking like a business owner to feeling, thinking, acting like an entrepreneur. And we've talked about this frequently with our accelerator program where you can shift from a freelancer mindset to a business owner mindset. But once we're in the think tank, and we're working very closely with the copywriters in that room and they're surrounded by 25 other copywriters who are ambitious and building businesses and restructuring models and figuring out how to do it in a way that works for them, that's where that shift from business owner to entrepreneur really takes place. And we've seen it with the think tankers that have been in there and how they've grown even since they've left the think tank. So that's the big shift for me that I've noticed, from the people that show up in the think tank. Rob:  Yeah, I agree. If you want to be a great copywriter you study great copy writing. You surround yourself with good copywriters. But if you want to be a great business owner of a copywriting business, then you need to more than just copywriting. You need to study business principles. You need to be surrounded by people who are doing, not just interesting things, but successful things, big things, in their businesses. And that's why something like the think tank helps so much. So I've you're listening to us, talk about that. And if the Copywriter Think Tank sounds like something you'd at least like to know a little bit more about visit copywriterthinktank.com, fill out that form and we can just have a short call to talk about whether it's right for you. Kira:  Okay. Let's hear from Chris about what's been going on in his business since we last talked to him about two years ago. I believe it was episode 112 of the podcast. A lot has changed for him. Chris:  I went from being a freelancer to having a simple team. And info products, a newsletter, all this just crazy stuff. A lot of growth. What happened was I was getting to the point as a freelancer where I'd done a lot of big multimillion dollar launches and worked for people like Jeff Walker and Tom Asraf, and I just started feeling like I just was doing the same thing over and over again. All these big launch projects, these webinars and everything, and it was fun. It was cool. But after a while I was just like, "I want another challenge. I want another mountain to climb." I didn't really know what I wanted that to be, but I just knew I wanted to see what else was out there. So, I started obviously working on my own side of the business. Building my own list and creating products and those kind of things, which was cool. And it's really exciting the first time you have an email list. I remember I did an affiliate promotion for Abbey Woodcock's, one of her programs a couple years ago. My list was 273 people and I made 1,700 bucks. And I was like, "Holy crap, this is awesome. I can do this every week." It was so cool. So I just knew that that was going to be the next step for me instead of just continuing to ... Because there's a few different paths that you can go. You can go super deep and become the high end freelancer and continue to raise your fees and the level of clients you work with. There's nothing wrong with that. But for me I was like, "I want to see what else is out there." Because I get bored. I want to hop around. I want to get my hands in different things. So, I started doing that. I also started getting more leverage and removing myself from writing as much copy one on one for clients. I said, "You know what, I have this idea where I want to do an agency." And I'm a big fan of mad men, so maybe that's just reprogrammed my brain a little bit after watching it eight times. But, I was like, "You know what, I think I can do it." And I was like, "Why not?" I'm 32 right now. When I started this agency, when I had the agency idea I was 29, 30. I was like, "What am I going to do for the next three decades? What am I going to do?" I don't know, there's nothing wrong with just continuing to do the same thing and becoming a master of the craft, but I was like, "I just want to see what else is out there." So, I said, I'm going to start an agency, and so I didn't know when. But then COVID happened. And my son was born March 31 last year and it was crazy because we didn't know if I'd be allowed in the hospital. I mean, I knew I was going to be there even if I had to elbow past the guard. It's like, "I'm going to be in that room." But there was a lot of uncertainty and my wife had to labor in a mask. There was this whole big ... we didn't know what was going on. It was very early on in the process. Everyone probably remembers what that was like. And I remember I came home, I had this paternity leave plan. I was going to take two or three weeks off and do nothing. And with everything that was going on with the economy and the market tanked and all this stuff. I was like, "We're taking zero days off." I launched my agency the day I got home from the hospital. We put my son down for a nap and I got on the computer I said, "All right, let's get some writers. We've got a few clients signed up. Let's get it going." And ever since then, just been pedal to the metal. Rob:  So, I'm really curious about that process because I know there are a lot of our listeners that even if maybe an agency isn't right for them now, they're kind of thinking, "Hey, maybe someday the agency thing would work for me." Or they're working with clients and they've got enough work that they occasionally bring in a junior writer to help out with various things. So they're almost to that stage. Talk to me a little bit about, okay yeah, you launched the agency but there's a lot that goes into that. Let's talk about the first steps but clients, writers, other help and all that goes into running a virtual agency. Chris:  Man, it's a lot. The main thing I can tell you is that you've got to know what you want out of it. You've got to know who you are, what you do, who you do it for. And what you want it to be. And those, it's taken me 18 months to figure that stuff out. So it's not like you listen to the podcast and then 10 minutes later you have it figured out. It's going to take a lot of just going out there, closing deals, working on projects. And I remember I was telling Kevin Rogers, who I do coaching with, I was like, "Man, every week I just get punched in the face." Like just punched in the face with reality.