BOSSes Anne Ganguza and Andy Roth delve into the nuances of voice acting from the perspective of a seasoned casting director. They explore strategies for success in auditions, emphasizing the importance of authenticity and making genuine choices. Listeners will gain insights into the casting process, understanding the client's vision, and the significance of following instructions. The episode addresses the impact of AI on the industry while reinforcing the irreplaceable value of human connection and unique interpretation. Anne and Andy also discuss practical advice for creating compelling auditions, handling limited information, and cultivating a resilient mindset in the face of industry challenges.
00:04 - Anne (Host)
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00:39 - Speaker 2 (Announcement)
It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguza.
00:58 - Anne (Host)
Hey, hey everyone. Welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguza, and today I am so excited to have a very special guest Andy Roth with me here today. Andy has a career that has spAnned three decades and he is an award-winning casting director, voice director, producer and writer and is known for you Would Do it Too, too Hot to Handle Valeria, the Animal People, the Forest, my gosh this list Andy is going on and the Peculiar Adventures of Willoughby Starr. He's also served as casting director on over a thousand commercials. That is a lot of commercials. So welcome to the podcast, Andy. It's so wonderful to have you.
01:40 - Andy (Host)
Thanks, I'm excited to be here. Thank you.
01:43 - Anne (Host)
Gosh, I met you not so long ago and I'm not quite sure why it took so long for me to meet you, but I thank Jessica Blue for introducing us because I feel like I've known you forever and you're just amazing and I want the bosses to know how amazing you are as well. And so let's talk about you and your long, spanning career of gosh over a thousand commercials and all these productions. It's amazing. How did you get started?
02:11 - Andy (Host)
Honestly and yes, I think I have worked on more commercials than any human being should probably ever really be exposed to. I got started in this business actually back in 1994. A friend of a friend heard about an opening for an assistant at a talent agency which was called CED at the time. Now it's called CESD and it was in the voiceover department and so I became an assistant there, did that for several years, then became their in-house casting director and did that till 2007 and then left on my own and I actually I didn't even know when I started that voiceover was its own thing.
02:49 - Anne (Host)
I was going to ask you, did you get the experience on the job as you were casting?
02:53 - Andy (Host)
Yeah, like I mean, of course I always knew about commercial voiceover and animation and things like that, but I didn't know how vast it was until I was really in the heart of it and I just I fell in love with it.
03:05 - Anne (Host)
I can't imagine. I mean and so how has the industry changed and evolved over the years?
03:10 - Andy (Host)
for you, Well, it's gotten bigger. So many changes I mean, it's been 30 years since I went through a couple of strikes. It was the explosion of the non-union entity, which has become a whole other thing, of the non-union entity, which has become a whole other thing. Yeah, it's become its own area of the business. I've discovered that voiceover is anytime there's something new. Voiceover is the first thing there. Oh, how interesting. Anytime there's a new piece of technology, somebody wants to put a voice on it. Siri's a voiceover. Yeah, Alexa is a voiceover. Holograms have voiceovers. Augmented reality, virtual reality. When I started in this business, it was basically 13 chAnnels and people really mostly only cared about four of them. Yes, yes.
03:58 - Anne (Host)
I hear you on that.
04:00 - Andy (Host)
And then cable became a thing and you had this box with three numbers on it so you could have 999 chAnnels. And now with streaming, it's just icons. I mean it's unlimited. It goes on forever. And people have discovered content from other countries that's exploded and become a thing and voices are everywhere. We are the first area of the business to adapt and change and we're sticky Once we're in a place voiceover is just going to be there.
04:32 - Anne (Host)
I love that. I love that, and especially because you've been in the industry for so long and we talked about, you know, the explosion, like the technology explosion too, I mean, with first it was all union, then non-union kind of came aboard, because of the pay to place, I'm sure, and the online casting, and now we're under the threat of AI. But I guess I'd love to hear your thoughts on that, because here you are with all these wonderful, hopeful things that you're saying about voiceover, which I love and I like to tell my bosses out there as well. I mean, I think there's always a place for human voiceover.
05:00 - Andy (Host)
What are your?
05:00 - Anne (Host)
thoughts on that.
05:02 - Andy (Host)
I think there are certain areas of the business that may be a little safer from AI, especially animation. People love to go to cons to meet the voice of their character. You can't really replace that with AI. Is it 100% safe? Maybe not, but there are people dealing with it, fortunately, and AI does a lot of good things for the world too. I mean, I've seen programs where people who have no ability to speak can speak because AI helps them. It helps search engines. I mean there is definitely a place for AI. But as far as the possibility of replacing humans in this business, there are people out there that are concerned about it, that are helping, and fortunately they've been on it since it really became apparent it could be a thing. I'm optimistic. I'm realistic in that there will be some areas where AI is going to be there. It already is, but I'm very, very optimistic about protections.
06:02 - Anne (Host)
Me too, me too.
06:03
I really am. There's a lot of people fighting and, with the strike going on, which you know, fingers crossed, people are listening. I mean, I think what it is is we have voices and hopefully they're being heard, because a lot of people out there, like back in the beginning, when I got into voiceover, like what is that? Even, and even when you said you started, like what is that? Even. I think bringing awareness to the global community about voiceover and what we do as creatives and how important the creative process is, I think is really impactful in helping get us protections as we move forward. And I am a tech girl and I believe there is a lot of space for AI in the world, but I also believe there's a lot of space for human and human engagement and human creativity and I think that people crave that, no matter how good. And let's talk about this because an AI voice is perfect, and so you and I also with my students, we talk a lot about like I don't want a perfect voice when I'm directing my students.
07:02
I mean I want to hear that imperfection because that makes it real and that makes me engage and connect with it. Let's talk a little bit about that, about really, what should voice actors be doing now to really separate themselves from the crowd and also from AI?
07:19 - Andy (Host)
Well, honestly, being a presence having a discussion, you don't connect to AI the way you connect to another human when it reaches its pinnacle and it's really ready to go, which it's not totally now. But the good thing about AI is it's going to do whatever you ask it to do whenever you ask it to do it. The bad thing about AI is it's going to do whatever you ask it to do whenever you ask it to do it. There are some moments that have come out of projects I've worked on. I mean, I've voice directed I think like 22 shows now that are on the air. The great thing is you give a direction and the human being interprets it their way, and sometimes you're right on the money and you're really simpatico and it's exactly what I asked for. Thank you. Sometimes we figure things out together. Sometimes they come up with something they thought was what I asked for but was actually a lot better.
08:13
When you get two independent minds with human experience, with a life, with a history of interacting with other human beings, there's a thought process there that, at least at the moment and honestly, in my opinion, for the foreseeable future, can't really be duplicated. I mean, ai is intelligence, but it is artificial and we cast based on human interaction. We connect with roles we direct. This whole industry is built on human interaction. So, to a certain point, yes, ai can get things going and smooth out maybe some of the bumps, but it's not really going to be the base on which this industry is built for human beings to connect to other human beings. That being said, not everybody sees it this way, so be vigilant and be aware of it. But as far as how people can stand out honestly, the best way for people to stand out is to be themselves. There are a lot of people I know that send me auditions that I can hear they're trying to be what they think the right thing is. Yes, absolutely.
09:19
And if I've asked you to audition, you're already the right thing. I don't know if you'll get the job, but I know that you can do the job. And I've had auditions that people didn't book lead to other jobs that they didn't even audition for. That actually just happened on a show I am on right now. I cast somebody and he was like did I audition for this? I'm like well, sort of you auditioned, like two shows ago.
09:43 - Anne (Host)
I love that. Yeah, I think that's very encouraging for those actors out there who it's such a personal thing, right.
09:50
When you submit an audition, it's so hard not to get personally attached to it or feel like, oh gosh, like I really, really want this, and but then you don't hear anything or you may never get feedback and then ultimately that is, I think, when people are first starting out in this industry. It's something very hard for them to kind of let go of because it is such maybe a personal connection. But I love that you're talking about bringing yourself and the human element to the audition, because that's really what makes you unique. I'll even tell my students, because I do a lot of work in the long format narration like corporate and e-learning, and most people feel like that shouldn't have like a point of view or a feeling, but most absolutely it does, because I tell people to think about like okay, if you're going to do an e-learning module like what was it when you were going to school that made someone your favorite teacher?
10:37
Like did you have a subject that maybe you hated, but then all of a sudden, the teacher was amazing and then that's what made it interesting. And that's the type of voice that I want to come out. And there's always a point of view in that, believe it or not, it's a point of view that says I care about you as a student, that I care that you learn, and so that comes through in the voice and if you're just reading the words, or even if you're just reading the words in the sound in which you hear them all the time, which typically is very robotic for a lot of e-learning, I go on and on about why that happened for so many years. Because nobody chucked us on it and nobody was an actual teacher.
11:09
And I say that because I was a teacher in front of the classroom for 20, some odd years. But still, even if you think in what you hear, I have so many students that say, but I hear it on the commercial, it sounds like this and I'm like, yeah, but that might not have been what got them cast. It might be at the moment that someone directed them to be. And even you, if I ask, if you're directing someone, do you not only sometimes have to like talk to the client to see?
11:33
if that's what the client is thinking is good, and even what you might be like, this is great. This actor's got it nailed. The client might want something different.
11:41 - Andy (Host)
Well, I work with the actor for the client. The actor is sort of the most profound connection artistically. That's the relationship that ultimately creates a thing. But I do work for the client and ultimately what they want.
11:57
I kind of think of it like this: this is a hive mind and there's a queen bee somewhere in an office with a checkbook and the rest of us are workers trying to make sure the hive is ready before it rains. So I very, very much listen to the client, want to do what the client says. I'm very much back and forth with the client. If it's a dubbed show that I'm directing, I am constantly because I could get a read that I'm like that's brilliant, that's amazing, I love it. And then I'm like that's brilliant, that's amazing, I love it. And then I'm like let's compare it to the original, because if it doesn't match or do the same thing, I'm like I love it, but we have to shelve it and we have to do what the client wants.
12:34 - Speaker 2 (Announcement)
But at the end of the day.
12:35 - Andy (Host)
The client has built a container that they want filmed with humAnness and it is my job to fill it up, and that happens just through us connecting. Part of what I listen for on an audition is do I get you? And I don't mean like, are you a Pisces? Or something like that. I mean Long walks on the beach, right exactly Pina coladas getting caught in the rain, not that I have a problem with pina coladas or getting caught in theaters, or long walks on the beach.
13:05 - Anne (Host)
Long walks on the beach.
13:06 - Andy (Host)
Let's be fair, but I do feel like I want to feel like there's a human there, because that makes me feel like I know what's going to happen in the studio, and I don't want any of us to do more work than we absolutely have to do. I want us to connect, do something, play with it, do it again, move on, and it needs to be within the container that the client has given me to fill. Does that make sense?
13:29 - Anne (Host)
Yeah, absolutely so. Then if there are casting specs, and someone is paying attention to the casting specs, which a lot of times. Casting specs sometimes seem fairly generic and sometimes not. How much should they be paying attention to that and trying to like create that versus bringing their most human self to that read?
13:49 - Andy (Host)
Well, I will say this about casting specs and yeah, sometimes they kind of suck and I'm sorry about that, but they are designed to help you. They are coming from somebody's mind to kind of get you to the place where you can be you in the relevant context. Sometimes they're just not actable, sometimes they are a little generic, sometimes they're not understandable, but more often I think they are. And even if we don't realize every nuance, just reading them often will get us to an emotional place where we can be ourselves, because happy you is very different than sarcastic you or sad you or angry you. I say, always pay attention to them, always read them. But If you can't make a choice based on them, then maybe sort through or throw them away, but they are always there to help you.
14:42
I mean, I do know some people that are like, oh, I never read the specs. I don't think that's the best way to go. Sure, yeah, always. But I mean again, you don't have to be beyond completely throwing them away. They're garbage or they're just completely not you, but they weren't paying attention to. Also, sometimes we put things in there like naming conventions, if I say I want the file named role underscore full name.
15:12
And I get something that's named a different way Well before I've even listened to it. You've told me you don't really care what I have to say. So yeah, I would say, always pay attention to them.
15:21 - Anne (Host)
I like how you turned that into the message right.
15:24
So a lot of people I'll be like I don't understand why I will have my students name files a particular way, because they submit their homework via Dropbox and they have to name it a certain way. And if they don't, I spend half of their session looking for their file and what happens is they seem to think I'm insane for asking them to name it a certain way. And I'm like, in reality, there's a method to my madness here. I mean because if you audition, you're going to have to name that file specifically the way they're asking, otherwise it's going to get tossed to the side. I like how you mentioned that. Yeah, you've already shown that you have respect for the process by naming the file correctly, and it shouldn't be a task to do that. And if it is a task, then I think maybe you should get some computer training that can help you to do that task and to pay attention, because that's part of our job when we're submitting.
16:14 - Andy (Host)
I mean, you're going to name it something.
16:16 - Anne (Host)
Yeah, exactly, why not name it what we're asked?
16:19 - Andy (Host)
You're not just going to send me a file with nothingmp3. Also, I find that some of these rules, although they may not be the creative process, they may not be the most fun thing, they actually do help their creative process. I was talking to somebody who is an on-camera person. They're working on their own project and it's great. And I said have you ever interned or worked at a studio? You know, it's California, there's no shortage of them. If you can't intern, well, I think that that would get in the way of my creativity and I don't want to. And it's like okay, I understand that, because you'll be in their world with their creativity, but nobody writes a screenplay and says I can't wait to gaff this.
17:08
I'm so excited to hire security and craft services. Working at a place where all of these things are just laid out, where, okay, I have to get security, I have to get craft services, I have to go file permits, I have to do all this. Working at a place that's going to make the part you don't really want to do easy, is going to free you up to focus on the creative and it's actually going to make you creatively freer because, whether it's a horror movie or a romance or a comedy, getting a permit is getting a permit. It's the same and getting used to saying, okay, I know how they want to do this. It's the reason I have people name certain things is because often I want all characters grouped together.
17:44 - Anne (Host)
Yeah, absolutely yeah. There's a good reason for that, yeah.
17:47 - Andy (Host)
Right, and if yeah, like you said, if I have to go searching through it, you made my job harder finding you than it was for you. To just name it what I asked you.
17:55 - Anne (Host)
Don't give you homework, like I shouldn't be giving you homework.
17:58 - Andy (Host)
If I'm submitting an audition, it should not be homework for you to find it and to listen to it, and yeah, absolutely, and I just may not do it.
18:06 - Anne (Host)
Yeah, exactly Because you know you're that student that sits in the back of the class. I mean, I already know this about you, having met you briefly, but those are the most fun students.
18:18
Those are the creative ones that usually you know they're geniuses in the back because they're causing all kinds of trouble, but you don't want to give your talent agent or your casting director or whoever it is you're submitting your audition to. You don't want to give them homework. So what other things would you recommend are strategies for maybe creating a great audition or getting to the humAnness and the point of view that you're looking for in terms of this is the actor I want to cast.
18:45 - Andy (Host)
Don't try to get it right. Don't deliberately get it wrong, like if the role obviously needs you laughing. Don't cry uncontrollably to stand out, because you will stand out.
18:55 - Anne (Host)
It's got to make sense.
18:56 - Andy (Host)
Yeah, you will stand out, just not necessarily in the way that you want to, but being free. So many people hang so much on every audition it's like, oh, this is the job, and if I don't get this job I failed. And that's not true. Every audition can get you more auditions. An audition is really a way to establish or reaffirm a relationship, and you'll get opportunities and jobs in this business. For one reason Somebody wants you to have that opportunity, or that job.
19:30
It's not who you know in this business, it's who knows you. Ah, I like that in an audition. I mean there's nothing anybody can teach you that's going to guarantee you're going to book everything. But being yourself making simple choices, Okay, the first line is oh my God, I'm so happy, I'm going to make a simple choice, I'm going to smile, I'm going to be happy, I'm going to listen back to it, see if it needs more or less, maybe something else, but trying to be like what did they mean by? You know, let me stand out, let me get? You don't know enough at the audition point to stand out. You haven't heard the other auditions. You don't know about the conversations the casting director's having with the client. You don't know who else is cast. You don't know. You don't know any of the parameters. Sometimes somebody wants somebody who's done a million jobs because of a time frame or there's a relationship.
20:22
Sometimes we specifically don't want that person because that person has been heard on eight other projects. You don't know any of that. What you can know is that if we've reached out to you with an audition, it's because there's already something there that lets us at least believe we know who you are. I don't need some weird ethereal happy, I just need your happy. It's also not about not needing to be directed. It's about us getting you so we can ask can you be?
20:52 - Anne (Host)
happier. Can you be less happy?
20:53 - Andy (Host)
Yeah, keep it simple, there's a thing.
20:57
I call the four disagreements yeah, if you want to serve the script, don't worry about serving the script. If you want to get it right, don't worry about getting it right. If you want to play the moments, don't worry about playing the moments. And if you want to make the casting director happy, don't worry about making the casting director happy. Make the choice or choices that you feel are right for the script, for the context and any other information you may have.
21:23
Was somebody that I felt was really, really right for a role. I thought they were great, they were perfect for it. I read them, I gave my little write-up about why I thought they were terrific, sent it off. The director really, really liked them and it came down to that person and one other and the other person ultimately got it. That's what the director was feeling and it was a great person. I mean, the person who got it was terrific and I liked them and I worked with them all the time. But I was like, not the way I would have gone, but fine. So season two.
22:08
I ended up directing season two and I called this actor and I said do you mind if I submit you? And they said sure, what do you want me to read? I said I don't. I want to resubmit your audition from last season. And they said but it didn't get me the job. I said no, but there's different brains involved now and we'll see. And the person who booked it last time can't do it again because they did it last time and it's a different role. And I resubmitted it with the same write-up and they ended up getting a lead role. So we hang so much on everything that we micromanage, we microanalyze. Don't look for information you don't have and not going to have. Say this is what I feel is right. I'm not an idiot. I know the business, I know my choices are right. I sometimes book. I get asked to audition again. Do them, and I'm not going to say forget about it, because that's not always how brains work.
23:03 - Anne (Host)
Try to forget about it. Yeah, exactly, don't let it mentally hassle with your yeah yeah, don't schedule an extra therapy session for it or anything. Yeah, exactly.
23:12 - Andy (Host)
Yeah, I mean it'll be in your head and it's fine, but know that your audition is out there working for you. Just be you. Make simple choices, things you know you can do, things you feel are right and do them.
23:24 - Anne (Host)
Now here's a question which I know is on a lot of people that are just getting into the industry, or students that are just getting into the industry. It's about the lack of. They're like the words are on the page and they don't make sense to the student, because they're talking about some visual that's probably already been done or it's in the process, or the person that wrote the copy knew what visuals were going to be along with it. But yet here's the copy, but yet no storyboard. There's no other information except for maybe like casting specs about oh, we want female age, blah, blah, blah, blah. And so then they're like well, how do I interpret this? How do I even because I'll okay, who are you? Who are you talking to? You know, create that scene. And when I'm just like well, look, as long as you're committed right, you're committed to those words and they make sense, you can make up whatever scene you want that allows you to be authentic and genuine with it.
24:15
And sometimes I'm very surprised at stuff that I've done. When I look at what comes out afterwards, I'm like whoa, okay, I didn't expect that. So why is that? Are we a step in the process where we don't get fed more information, like is there a reason why there's not more storyboards or there's not more you know what I mean information given at the time of the audition, or just curious?
24:36 - Andy (Host)
I never asked anybody this and I will say this. It sometimes is as frustrating for me. I would love for the actor to have everything the actor needs, but sometimes you can't. Sometimes projects are secretive. Sometimes there actually is a storyboard. I'm just not allowed to tell you. Sometimes there's information about what show it is or what the product is. I remember when Apple first started advertising the iPhones and we were casting in person because it was a long time ago and we weren't even allowed to put iPhone on the door. We weren't even allowed. It would be secret product, you know, and people would be like oh, a phone that does stuff.
25:17 - Anne (Host)
But we weren't allowed to say it.
25:19 - Andy (Host)
So there'd be like on the door it would say like jet plane or freezer burn or just some random word, so you would know where you should go. I worked on a show recently where there were these athletes going to this really important game and one of them is looking out the window and it's starting to rain and he's nervous and he's like, wow, it's raining out there. And the coach looks at him and goes, yeah, but it's raining for the other team too. Whatever information you don't have, neither does anybody else.
25:54
Whatever problems you have, everybody else it's raining for the other team too Sure.
25:59 - Anne (Host)
Sure, I love that. It's so nice for you to validate that you know, what.
26:03 - Speaker 2 (Announcement)
I mean.
26:03 - Anne (Host)
Because I think a lot of times people are like but why, how? Come I don't know anymore. Why can't?
26:07 - Speaker 2 (Announcement)
I.
26:08 - Anne (Host)
I said it's very rare in any of my jobs in all these years that I've ever gotten a storyboard. I mean after. I get it maybe I'll get a storyboard. There'll be times I'll get storyboards with a commercial audition, but I think it's gotten less over the years. Yeah.
26:23 - Andy (Host)
You get what people feel you need, and they're not always right.
26:26 - Anne (Host)
And a lot of times they change again. Yeah.
26:30 - Andy (Host)
And it's very much. You get what you get. You don't get upset, but you will always have everything you need to do your job. You may not feel it, it may not be as much as you want, but it is enough to get you to a place where you can come up with specifics. Even if you make them up, you can come up with a.
26:50 - Anne (Host)
I'm happy, I'm sad. I'm a wise ass.
26:53 - Andy (Host)
This business. We do everything we can to give you everything you need to do your job and only be as specific as you can. Don't go to a place where you're making up a whole scenario so you can feel more complete as a performer that I'm not going to get. Does that make sense?
27:12 - Anne (Host)
Yeah.
27:13 - Andy (Host)
Know that when we send this out, we are ready to fill in these blanks in the job Right.
27:19 - Anne (Host)
And usually, if I'm not mistaken, the voiceover is probably one of the tail end of the things to be filling in, or no Is? That not a correct Like. Usually the media is finished, the things have been written. Usually there's visuals somewhere along the line that have been made and then the last thing to be cast is a voice, but maybe not when we're talking on camera. I mean, that could be. That's a different part of the process.
27:40 - Andy (Host)
Yeah, well, I mean, I would say probably, I mean anytime there's an actor involved. A lot of work has been done before. Yeah, before we even start talking to actors, and a lot of work's going to be done after the actors are gone. So, yeah, on camera, yeah, of course you're on set for a little bit longer probably than voiceover, but, yeah, often things are in place and we do our best to ask is that what you're saying? Yeah, yeah, absolutely yeah, yeah, but there's a lot that happens before anybody asked me to do anything.
28:12 - Anne (Host)
There's a lot that happens before the mixer's involved or anything yeah, yeah, I think it's good to know that we're only one tiny piece of like an entire project and sometimes, I think, in our own little worlds. We tend to forget that in our booths right. We're like oh the voiceover is like front and center and in reality there's so many other components to probably creating this project or commercial or movie or whatever it is.
28:38
There's so many other parts and we get so wrapped up in just our part of it that I think we have to realize that we're just a cog in the wheel so to speak, it's an important cog I mean, the machine won't work without it. Exactly.
28:50 - Andy (Host)
But we do mesh. It's a great analogy, metaphor simile, simile, it's a great simile. Yeah, right, I thought I was an English teacher. There you go, simile, there you go. Oh, I love it. I love it, it's a great, yeah, simile.
29:10
Yeah, because, like I said, we're all worker bees yes, yeah, I know that we have a lot of the same issues too. There's stuff I can't know, there are things I'm not allowed to be a part of, and there's a lot of processes. So, yeah, just do your job. Don't worry about what we want or what somebody else is looking for or somebody else is hiding. We're not, we're not hiding anything. We just need you to be you, to know what that cog is.
29:26
And again, I have anxiety attacks when I get a job, sometimes because there's just so much stuff I haven't gotten to sit down with it yet. I haven't seen a script, I don't have a cast. Sometimes I don't have all the episodes of a show or all the spots in the commercial campaign. There's a lot I don't know either. And I understand it can be isolating. It could feel lonely, you know, when you're alone in your booth it could feel like everybody's working more than you, everybody's auditioning more than you, everybody in the industry does have that. It's been a few weeks. Am I ever going to work again?
30:02 - Anne (Host)
Do I belong in this industry? It just becomes very dramatic sometimes.
30:06 - Andy (Host)
I state something. I offered a potato chip. Did that offend somebody? And we spiral out. Every single person involved does it. Oh, nice to know, I'm not alone, right, I mean, because even after all these, years.
30:20 - Anne (Host)
Sometimes it's so hard not to get those thoughts in the way. I swear that, like everything that we do, sometimes it's so hard not to get those thoughts in the way I swear that, like everything that we do, is sometimes it's not a God given talent.
30:28
Well it is, but it's the most important thing, is our mental state about it all, because it can affect so much I mean the fact is is that we can just like let those feelings and ideas spin around in our head and be like oh my God, did I do something to offend? Am I good enough? Am I? You know all that talk in your head is the stuff that I think is probably some of the most dangerous talk and things that you could have as a voice actor.
30:52 - Andy (Host)
Yeah, it's. It's like Schrodinger's audition the audition is simultaneously good, bad and not submitted. There you go.
31:02 - Anne (Host)
I love it. Oh my goodness. So then I would say, with the thousands of commercials that you have directed or produced, what? Would you say, is the cast that you've cast? What's the best thing a talent can do? In hopes of maybe getting cast. And what's the worst thing that you've seen a talent do that wouldn't get them cast?
31:22 - Andy (Host)
Yeah, I don't know that I'm going to say the worst thing.
31:24 - Anne (Host)
Or yeah, maybe not a smart thing. So yeah, that kind of tends to be pretty specific to a person.
31:30 - Andy (Host)
And if it's the worst thing I've seen, it means probably only one person did it and so I'm not going to tell, I would say, the most probably impractical thing that.
31:39
I've seen people do is be like, okay, I'm going to be the person who is going to get the job. I'm going to try to fool you into thinking that I'm the person you're really going to hire, and so I'll get a read and somebody's clearly doing this and it's like well, I know it's a car commercial, but I didn't ask for that and that person is available and they work for what you work for.
32:04
If I reached out to you, I don't want an impression of that person or people that change their voice into a better version of you know, it's like if I called somebody because they have a certain depth to their voice.
32:19 - Anne (Host)
This is my voiceover voice, right, yeah?
32:21 - Andy (Host)
And if I haven't asked you to do that and I might I mean there are things but if I haven't asked you to do that, don't do that. It may even turn into that at the end of the day.
32:32 - Anne (Host)
Isn't that the truth, right? It may turn into that at the end. That's what. I end up getting is people be like. But I listened to the commercial and it sounds just like this and I'm like but that doesn't mean that that performance got you the job.
32:43 - Andy (Host)
Yeah, I've had people come up to me. Andy, I heard that spot, I could have done that. Why didn't you ask me to do that? And I'm like is it your first day in the business, have you never? It's like nobody did that. The person who booked it didn't do that and the client liked the director is directing and they call the client and the client's like can we hit this word a little bit more? And I feel like we're not pushing.
33:07 - Anne (Host)
Yeah, and I always say that the person who's actually making decisions like it depends on, like what they hear in their head, right. And maybe they're a 65 year old person that's been listening to announcery commercials all their lives and that's what they hear in their head. And that's what ends up getting directed, or whatever it is. I think our voices become a product of the years and years that we've had and your musical, I know this right Of hearing things right.
33:31
And so that's why when we go in and we say this is what we think you want to hear, because we're mimicking over a period of years that's why in our head there's a certain melody Also. I think there's a certain melody also. I think there's a scientific and tell me and if you think I'm right, I think there's a scientific like reason why people, when they read words, they read them in a melody. That's very expected, because I can tell you exactly like.
33:52
Here's a paragraph, I can mimic exactly what you're going to do. If you're not thinking about like acting and you're just thinking about reading along a melody, I know that melody already and it's funny because I'm right like 99.9% of the time with that melody. And what is that? That's a scientific study that you read words in a certain melody.
34:11 - Andy (Host)
Well, I'm not a neuroscientist, Damn it Andy, why? Not, you're everything else. That was my fallback, that was plan B, just in case yeah, I mean you've got that medical background. But the brain doesn't think in words, the brain doesn't think in images. The brain thinks in little synaptic flashes, billions and billions and billions of them. You're sounding like a scientist, thank you.
34:36
Thank you very much For anybody who's like questioned me on that, which, fine, by all means question. My answer is what's the word that keeps you balanced? What's the word that keeps your heart beating? What's the? Your brain doesn't need words. Your brain just does little flashy things like a microchip. Your brain's basically a macrochip, holds, I think, about 10 terabytes of information and it processes it certain ways. So when you look at a word, it doesn't actually see a word, it sees an image that sparks a whole sequence of synaptic flashes. The people that organized those words in the form of a script or a book or whatever learned the language. The way you learned the language. They learned it by hearing it. And even if it's your second language, yeah, okay, maybe there's some schooling, but at the end of the day, you're really learning it conversationally, by hearing people do it. So your brain doesn't just process. Okay, this is this sequence of words with a dot or a line at the end of it, or a squiggle or something.
35:36
It actually processes the whole thing as a rhythm. The rhythm that was born into it will probably be the rhythm that comes out. And yeah, is it 100%? No, sometimes there's typos, sometimes things are weird, but it's also why, like, there's this thing online where there's a whole paragraph and every word has first, last and middle letter in the right place, but the rest of the words are just jumbled.
36:03 - Anne (Host)
Oh yeah, and we know what that.
36:04 - Andy (Host)
yeah, I've seen those and you can still read them, you can still get the rhythm, you can still do all that. So acting is a physics term is one of the things I say in my class. Acting is doing something that has an effect on a receiver. You say something, it affects somebody else. It hits a series of triggers. A script is the same thing. A script is a series of things that will trigger you in most cases, which?
36:30
is why somebody leaves a word out of a line. You often may not even notice that word's not there. Your brain's just going to put it in. So, yeah, exactly like you said, you're going to be right most of the time, because it is how your brain now thinks. And sometimes you won't be. But those are flukes. Those are rare. They do happen. They're. Certainly those will be the ones that we look at and focus on, because they're messed up and we'll use them to define ourselves. Oh, I'm terrible. How could I have made that mistake? But the truth is, usually things go right, and so trust yourself. It's why one of the four disagreements if you want to get it right, don't worry about getting it right.
37:11
Yeah, don't worry about getting it right, absolutely yeah, read it listen to it and, to be honest, if it's terrible, throw it away. Nobody's going to hear it.
37:18 - Anne (Host)
Right, it's so funny. I remember when I was teaching in front of the class and I would get so excited. Sometimes, like my brain, I'd be like, oh, and I want to tell them about this, and then what would come out of my mouth sometimes didn't follow, because I was so excited, but the funny thing is is that I never once had a classroom that didn't forgive me for that, do you?
37:35 - Speaker 2 (Announcement)
know what I mean?
37:36 - Anne (Host)
Yeah, yeah, because I was so intent on sharing, and excited and passionate that they forgave the mistakes I made, and I truly believe that that's how you need to approach your copy, because it's more about how you're making me feel really. And, like you said, it's a series of synapses or reactions or the words are there to trigger something and so the acting is reacting, kind of thing.
37:59
And so that really needs to be built into all of your auditions, all of your performances in some form or fashion. And yeah, worrying about making it perfect is spending too much time worrying about making it perfect and not enough time worrying about how are you going to make someone feel or how are you going to engage with them and tell that story.
38:17 - Andy (Host)
Yeah, it's not your job to not have a problem. It's your job to have a problem in a way that nobody else thinks it's going to become their problem. It's your ability to deal with it. Yeah, exactly, we worry about so much One of the things that I tell you have to do a do you can't, do a don't. I'm going to be happy. That's a do you can do that, I'm going to talk fast.
38:39
That's a do. I'm going to talk slow. I'm going to talk with an accent. I'm going to be really big or I'm going to be really small, I'm going to whisper Any of these things. These are things you can do. You can't do a don't. I don't want to be wrong is not a choice. I don't want to mess it up is not a choice. I'm trying to not be too fast, or I'm trying to not.
38:59
Those are not choices, those are don'ts. I would rather have you be too fast and ask you to slow down which is an inevitability of our relationship as director and actor anyway than have somebody who's delivering at the perfect pace but the copy is sounding like this and there's no humAnness to it. Cool, we learn more from our successes than our mistakes. HumAnness to it. Cool, we learn more from our successes than our mistakes. Everything you're good at, you've gotten good at by doing it right over, over, over, over over and sometimes messing it up, but being able to fix it because your brain knows what the right is. So whoever's listening to it or interacting with you in an audition is going okay. When they stumble, it's not going to be a big deal.
39:44 - Anne (Host)
Yeah, exactly, we'll move on yeah.
39:45 - Andy (Host)
Yeah, nobody cares.
39:46 - Anne (Host)
I want the intent.
39:47 - Andy (Host)
Yeah, nobody cares if you screw up, I mean, and the reality of it is is.
39:50 - Anne (Host)
I mean unless you're being live directed right. I mean we're all human. Everybody understands that. If you're not and you're doing it later on, I mean good Lord, we can just edit it.
40:01 - Speaker 2 (Announcement)
I mean, so if you stumble on a word.
40:03 - Anne (Host)
I mean, we all do it. I'd love to speak perfectly 100% of the time, but I certainly don't. And so, yeah, we all make mistakes and so it's just you fix it. And so when I'm having somebody read for me live, I don't care if they stumble, I want their acting, I want to hear their acting. And if they stumble, it's okay because inevitably they're going to get it right. If I'm paying them $10,000 for the job, I mean they're going to go do it until they get it right.
40:25
And so if you're going to stumble in front of me, that's fine. I just want to feel you and hear you.
40:30 - Andy (Host)
Yeah, just don't have a meltdown in front of me about it, don't beat yourself up, don't apologize. I want to be a director. I don't want to be a therapist.
40:39 - Anne (Host)
You probably are for most of the time.
40:41 - Andy (Host)
I don't want to. I don't want to do that. Yeah, I mean like people can go bleh, you know, and do a pickup. I don't mind a blip, that's huge. But I've seen people really like beat themselves up and feel like they're less than or feel like they're stupid I mess up words that I'm making up.
41:00 - Anne (Host)
I mess up words when I talk in everyday conversation.
41:03 - Andy (Host)
Yeah, yeah, and I don't even have a script, I'm just making that up. Yeah, exactly.
41:07 - Anne (Host)
That's brain to mouth.
41:09 - Andy (Host)
Oh, I screwed that up, yeah there's a lot that happens between synapse and noise and there can be a problem at any step of that process, so worry less about that, bosses. Yeah, worry less. There's a phrase that I hate practice makes perfect.
41:26 - Anne (Host)
I mean, I don't know, if you say it, I'm sorry if you do, I probably. No, I don't okay. Good, I mean because it's never happened.
41:30 - Andy (Host)
I mean, how long does something have to not happen before we stop acting like it's going to? The purpose of practice isn't to become some theoretical idea. The purpose of practice is to make you comfortable with the inevitability of your imperfection.
41:48 - Anne (Host)
Yeah, I like that.
41:49 - Andy (Host)
Yeah, you'll be reading a sarcastic role, or a happy role or an angry role. You'll be selling hamburgers or beer or a car. Scripts will change, attitudes will change, voices may change, but messing up a word and dealing with it doesn't. Yeah, yeah, you know that's the same. A typo, that doesn't change you. Getting mush mouth or dry mouth, that doesn't change. So the purpose of practice to get you comfortable with the fairly limited number of ways you're going to have a problem yeah, yeah, yeah yeah so that it's not a big deal.
42:23
I like that.
42:24 - Anne (Host)
I'm always saying if there's a mistake in the script, and especially well, for me it makes sense because typically long-format narration scripts go through rounds and rounds of approvals, through like corporate hands and even like your stuff, I'm quite sure, goes through many hands of approval and so like, if you're going to be that actor that's going to point out a mistake in a script, no, don't be that actor.
42:44
Be the actor that reads it exactly the way it is but makes it sound like there's no mistake you know what I mean, that's your job is to make it sound beautiful, like, even if a word's missing or I mean if it's really really obvious then you just graciously. Hey, here's an alternate take, just. But don't ever like point out the mistake. Goodness gracious, no, nobody wants to be that person.
43:03 - Andy (Host)
And if you have an opportunity to ask say is there a missing word? Sure, by all means, but sometimes you just don't have that opportunity. Sometimes you don't have an answer it's raining for the other team too.
43:14 - Anne (Host)
Yeah, I love that. It's like that's such a great takeaway. That's such a great takeaway, that and just not worrying right and not worrying about being perfect, and I think that that has just been a wonderful takeaway and I feel like we need to have part one, two and three of this interview.
43:30
I would love that it's so wonderful. Thank you so much for chatting with me today and imparting those words of wisdom. Are you available, Like if people want to find out more about you? I mean, do you have a website? I mean, is it one of those things that people can reach out to you?
43:47 - Andy (Host)
I do have a website. I have Andyrothcasting.com.
43:51 - Anne (Host)
Okay.
43:52 - Andy (Host)
Yeah, that is my website. I can't really always talk about things I'm working on, Of course. I mean almost everything is NDA, but things I've done are there. If I do have a class coming up or something, it's listed there.
44:03 - Anne (Host)
And speaking of though, we do have a class coming up. I'm going to have you for my VO Peeps guest director guys. So boss is coming up.
44:11
Make sure you sign up, and I will say that when I met you at Mavo, you were doing a couple of classes and people were just raving about you and so, and they were really like taking a lot away from your classes. So I can't wait, I can't wait for you to be and you're going to be in. What did we decide? It was, oh my gosh, it's like May, may, march.
44:34 - Andy (Host)
April, april or April or May, I don't know.
44:36 - Anne (Host)
Peeps check the calendar because he's going to be here and Andy Roth, make sure you sign up, and I'm so excited for that.
44:44 - Andy (Host)
Me too, me too. I'm really excited, and every opportunity to hang out and talk with you. Yay, I will take every one of those opportunities, awesome.
44:52 - Anne (Host)
Well, hey, I can't wait to do this again. Thank you so much, thank you For being with me today, and a big shout out to my sponsor, ipdtl. You too, can connect and network like bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Bosses, you have an amazing week. I just sounded Jersey. I think it's because I'm talking to you, Andy. I said bosses, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye, guys.
45:16 - Speaker 2 (Announcement)
Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via IPDTL.
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