The Second Coming of the Lord Turner - Ep148: Lord Adair Turner
Dec 20, 2023
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Lord Adair Turner, a prominent figure in business, policy, and academia, discusses progress and challenges in transitioning away from fossil fuels, the debate between reducing consumption and offsetting emissions, the effectiveness of heat pumps, advancements in solar and wind energy, implementing clear policies for the green premium in global shipping, the importance of blended finance and global financial support for climate change initiatives, and the challenges faced by countries in attracting private external investment.
The importance of global commitment to reducing fossil fuel use and investing in renewable energy
The challenge of overcoming the green premium in clean alternatives and the need for supportive policies and investments
The need for streamlined processes and government capacity to expedite the approval and implementation of renewable energy projects
Deep dives
Transitioning away from fossil fuels
The podcast discusses the progress made at COP28 in transitioning away from fossil fuels. It highlights the importance of getting 190 countries to recognize the need for moving beyond fossil fuels and committing to reducing their use. The podcast emphasizes the significance of the commitment to tripling renewable capacity by 2030 and the focus on creating expectations for investing in renewable energy. It acknowledges that there is still work to be done to reach the 1.5-degree centigrade target, but emphasizes the importance of bending the arc and continuing efforts to reduce emissions.
The challenge of the green premium
The podcast addresses the concept of the green premium, particularly in relation to clean hydrogen and other sectors such as shipping, cement, and petrochemicals. It discusses the challenge of the higher cost associated with clean alternatives and the need for policies such as carbon pricing to overcome the green premium. The podcast raises concerns about the significant financial gap in achieving the scale of clean hydrogen production and the importance of realistic policies and investments to support the transition.
Streamlining planning and permitting processes
The podcast highlights the issues of lengthy planning and permitting processes when it comes to renewable energy projects, particularly offshore wind farms. It identifies the factors contributing to delays, including sequential rather than parallel processes, repeated environmental assessments, and insufficient capacity within government ministries. The podcast emphasizes the need for well-designed processes that balance environmental considerations and expedites the approval and implementation of renewable energy projects.
Solar power progress and cost reduction
Solar panel costs have significantly decreased over the years, making solar energy more affordable and accessible. The price of solar panels has reduced by almost 99.875% in the last few decades. Solar installations across the world, driven by China and other countries, are surpassing expectations and heading towards the goal of a fully decarbonized electricity system by 2050. Battery technology advancements and declining costs are also contributing to the success of solar energy and its integration into the grid. Solar power, coupled with battery storage, particularly in tropical and equatorial areas, is predicted to become a highly efficient and cost-effective solution in the energy transition.
The challenges and manageability of mineral resources
The energy transition relies on the availability of mineral resources such as nickel, cobalt, and copper. While concerns exist about the environmental impact of mining, it is deemed a manageable problem relative to other industries like agriculture. The demand for minerals can be addressed through recycling efforts and technical innovation. For example, cobalt requirements for electric vehicle batteries have significantly decreased due to improved battery design. Recycling can further reduce the need for primary materials. However, challenges remain in terms of mineral extraction, land usage, and local environmental impacts. It is crucial to anticipate and manage these challenges while promoting responsible sourcing, mining practices, and comprehensive recycling strategies.
For a second consecutive year-closer, Michael welcomes Lord Adair Turner of Ecchinswell back to Cleaning Up. Lord Turner has combined careers in business, public policy and academia. He chairs the Energy Transitions Commission, a global coalition of major power and industrial companies, investors, environmental NGOs and experts working out achievable pathways to limit global warming to well below 2˚C by 2040 while stimulating economic development and social progress. He was chairman of the Institute for New Economic Thinking until January 2019, where he remains a Senior Fellow. He is Chairman of Chubb Europe and on the Advisory Board of Envision Energy, a Shanghai-based group focussed on renewable energy, batteries and digital systems.
He became a cross bench member of the House of Lords in 2006.
Amongst his business roles, Lord Turner was at McKinsey&Co (1982-1995); was Vice-Chairman of Merrill Lynch Europe (2000-2006) and a Non-Executive Director of a number of companies, including Standard Chartered plc (2006-2008). He is Senior Fellow at the Centre for Financial Studies (Frankfurt) and a Visiting Fellow at the People’s Bank of China School of Finance, Tsinghua University (Beijing). He writes regularly for Project Syndicate, and has published “Between Debt and the Devil” (Princeton 2015), and Economics after the Crisis (MIT 2012).
He is a Trustee Emeritus of the British Museum, honorary fellow of The Royal Society, and received an Honorary Degree from Cambridge University in 2017.
