Elise Hu joins us for a tale of startup bros and the hermit crabs that come between them.

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Episode transcript here.

Follow the show on Instagram @normalgossip, and if you have gossip, email us at normalgossip@defector.com or leave us a voicemail at 26-79-GOSSIP.

Normal Gossip is hosted by Kelsey McKinney (@mckinneykelsey) and produced by Alex Sujong Laughlin (@alexlaughs) and Ozzy Llinas Goodman. Jae Towle Vieira (@jaetowlevieira) is our associate producer. Abigail Segel (@AbigailSegel) is our intern. Justin Ellis is Defector's projects editor.

Show art by Tara Jacoby.

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