TCC Podcast #267: The Art of Conversation, Sparking Creativity, and Breaking the Rules with Amy Collins

Amy Collins is our guest for the 267th episode of The Copywriter Club podcast. Amy is a storyteller and copy strategist who unveils the mystery of creating stories out of everyday events. By taking your conversation skills to the next level, you can craft better stories not just for yourself but for your clients. Win-win, right? We break it down like this: Amy Collins journey from the art of writing to the art of copywriting. How to work on referrals, so you don’t have to overload the cold pitches. Is it possible to perfect the art of conversation? And is it even a thing? How to get your clients to disarm themselves and enhance the conversation. The different ways you can niche in your business. Reframing your perspective on being in your ideal client’s inbox. Behind the scenes of a storytelling master’s process. Why open loops take your emails to a whole new level. The common mistakes copywriters make when telling stories in their emails and how to fix them. How you can play with language to take your reader on a journey. Tools you can use to become a better storyteller. When to use VOC data and how to blend it into your story. Using your past lives to add value to your copy. Why “should” needs to disappear from the English Dictionary. How to become aware of your negative self-talk. The active choice to invest in yourself and your business. Going against the status-quo and ridding yourself of the need for validation. Thinking about starting an email list but have no idea what you should write to them? This is a good place to start. Hit that play button below or check out the transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Amy’s website Nic’s website Full Transcript: Rob:  When it comes right down to it, copywriting is a lot like having a conversation with your customers, or the customers of your client. And like any good conversationalist, that means that you can't afford to be boring. You have to stand out, engage the person you're talking to, and be interesting and interested. Our guest for this episode of the Copywriter Club Podcast is copy strategist and storyteller, Amy Collins. Amy shares how she's been able to have genuine conversations with her clients, and she gives us a few ideas for how we could all do better at this important skill. You're going to want to stick around for this one, but before we jump into the episode, my co-host for today is copywriter, voice strategist, and I just learned this a few seconds ago, trained as a radio announcer, Nicola Moors. Nic, welcome. Nic:  Hi, thanks so much for having me. Rob:  Yeah, I'm excited. I'm excited to have this conversation and have you share some of your takeaways. And of course, if anybody's been listening to the podcast for a while, they'll recognize that you were a guest on the podcast maybe a little over a half a year ago. If I remember, that was episode 200 and, what, 53. Nic:  Thirty-six. Rob:  236, 236. Nic:  Thirty-six. Rob:  Okay. Nic:  Yeah. Rob:  So, check out what Nic shared, and you shared a ton of really good stuff, your research process, how you were a journalist, and some of the crazy stories that you had to track down as a journalist. It's really interesting episode, good listen, and lots of good advice about brand voice. So, let people check that out. Nic:  Thanks. Rob:  And of course, this episode of the podcast is sponsored by... right now, today, it's sponsored by the Copywriter Accelerator. We're getting ready to relaunch the accelerator in January, so keep your eyes open for that. The accelerator is our 16-week program that helps copywriters some of them starting out, some of them who have been in business for years re-establish or create the foundation for their business. We talk about things like mindset and goal setting. We help you create packages, price them appropriately, figure out how you're going to show up in the world with your brand, how you work with clients, all of those things. And we've literally just reworked all of the content. So, we're excited to share this updated and revised version with the world. If you want to get on the wait list for that, go to thecopywriteraccelerator.com, and we'll send you more information as soon as that opens up. Okay, so we're going to jump into our interview that Kira did with Amy Collins and be back in a little while. Amy:  So officially, I got into copywriting about a decade ago. I was pursuing the art of writing in different elements. Some of that was journalism writing for a local magazine in Florence Alabama, where I was living at the time. Some of it was writing a blog, short true stories if you will, little essays. And then I needed money and journalism doesn't pay much, and blogging certainly doesn't pay. So, I just started talking to people around town who might need a writer to help them produce copy for various projects, and that's how I got into copywriting. And I think it started with working with the University of North Alabama College of Business, writing their newsletter and other things just came through various websites, blogs and that sort of thing. Kira:  Okay, and how did you find your clients along the way? Were you pitching clients? Were you reaching out to your network? How did that work? Amy:  Yeah, a lot of networking. And like I said when I got started, I was living in such a small town that I could just be out and about and see someone I knew and have a conversation and say, "Well, this is kind of what I'm doing." And they might have an idea for me and connect me with someone else. It's always been very organic for me in that way, and most of my clients I have found through referrals, through people that I've worked with before, or people I know who know what I can produce and would recommend me. And more recently, more referrals through fellow copywriters. So, I have not done a significant amount of cold pitching, but I guess initially I have, because I just start conversations with people and, "Hey, I could help you out here," and that sort of thing. Kira:  Yeah, maybe we could talk about that, the conversation because I think that's something that you do really well just from our conversations and where at least I don't think sales calls dawn to you. It seems like you're able to jump on with prospects and sell them on a variety of packages, and you can write a variety of different deliverables. And it seems to come so naturally to you to have that conversation, and have it turn into something much larger and often unexpected. Is there an art to that? Does that come naturally to you, or do you go in to those conversations with some strategy in mind? Amy:  It does come very natural to me. I feel like I've been perfecting the art of conversation since I was four and wandering across the street to the neighbor's house looking for interaction, right? But I have thought about this a lot, like what's the art to it? What can other people learn how to do? And I think I'm probably more extroverted than a lot of copywriters which I don't always identify with because I also appreciate a lot alone time, but I love people and I'm genuinely interested in people's stories, their experiences, how they live their lives, how they make their money. I'm very inquisitive in that way, and the truth is most people actually really enjoy talking about themselves. And if you give them an opportunity, they will share things with you. And for whatever reason, I think I have a demeanor that's disarming that people... I think that's the right word, that people feel comfortable talking with me, but I think for someone wanting to get more comfortable with that, always asking the other person questions. And it's a balance, because you don't want to get too personal. You don't want to come off as nosy or judgmental, but a genuine curiosity about a person's worldview can create connection very quickly. Kira:  Yeah. Well, maybe we could talk about that in the sense of let's say a sales call, and how you can shift that conversation, so that you are interested and you can connect easily with that person. And maybe understand their world view and ultimately turn that into a project where by the end of the caller like, "Yeah, I want to work with you." Is there a certain way to do it on a sales call versus other conversations you may have outside of that business space? Amy:  Yeah, I'm not sure I'd differentiate necessarily. Years ago, I was a sales rep for a wine wholesale company in New York City, and I remember once I was out with my manager. I think we were at dinner, and I was just having a conversation with the server. And he made a joke when the server walked away. He was like, "You're always working." I'm like, "I don't even realize what I'm doing. I'm just having a conversation with this person about their experience with wine and their opinion with wine," right? I think it's not a clear line between a discovery call or a conversation and a sales call, but the other thing I really learned in that job as a wine sales rep is to truly listen and to ask the questions to get down to what your prospect really needs, what they're really looking for. And that's often going to be questions that they may not know the answer to right away, but it brings up other ideas that you can start talking about and figuring out what's their philosophy, what is their worldview, what is their dream for their business. And they may not have that written down in a structured way and conversation helps them find that. And it helps me find where I can fit in and where I can help them. Kira:  And to figure out their world view, what are some questions you might ask to figure that out in a conversation? Amy:  Yeah, that's a really good question. Again,