434: Not As Nerdy As I Thought

Not As Nerdy As I Thought

[00:00:00]

Brett: Hey, you’re listening to Overtired. I am Brett Terpstra. I am here with just, just severance gun. So Christina Warren, due to scheduling conflicts, cannot be with us this week. Um, so you are in for a Brett and Jeff nerdy episode. Um, not that Christina can’t get nerdy like she totally can and does, but something we get, we get weirdly like not productivity nerdy when it’s just the two of us.

I don’t know.

Jeff: Yeah.

Brett: Yeah. Yeah.

Mental Health Check-in

Brett: So, um, we can kick it off with our, our usual mental health coroner. Mine is pretty short and sweet. Um, mentally I am. Finding myself just extremely happy with not having a job. Um, not enjoying the, like the health insurance loop, uh, [00:01:00] hurdles and not having like predictable regular income as, but not, I’m not, not enjoying it so much so that I don’t appreciate having all this time to just focus on like my commercial projects and all of this coding, and I’m finding it super rejuvenating to just like wake up in the morning and start coding and take regular breaks to do whatever the fuck I want.

And then. Ultimately, like the, the next version of Marked is the biggest leap marked has ever made in functionality. And I’m super proud of what I’m about to release, and I think it’s gonna be profitable, but also like extremely useful. And that’s all just really good for my mental health.

Carpal Tunnel Surgery

Brett: I did have, um, carpal tunnel surgery.

Jeff: Ooh, look at that. He just raised his fist in [00:02:00] the land of hypocrisy. Uh,

Brett: It, I did the total like black power fist too, but yeah, I have a

Jeff: you’re white, which makes it a problematic white power fist, but whatever. At least it’s got a gash in it.

Brett: Yes. So they did just one small incision. They stuck a camera into my palm through that incision and snipped, uh, not, not, uh, ligament across the middle of my palm. And um, that led to a couple days of super achy hand and they gave me no painkillers. So I’ve just been working with Tylenol and Ibuprofen for a couple days, but today doing pretty good.

I got the bandage off this morning. And, um, I will say as far as mental health goes, pain is, um, very detrimental to my mental health. [00:03:00] Uh, I, I am very sensitive to pain. Like I have tattoos, I have brands. I’ve, I’ve been through a lot of things where I intentionally like subjected myself to pain, but mostly because pain, because I’m so sensitive to pain.

I also get like a major endorphin rush off of pain. And so like I kind of just seek it out. But there are a couple types of pain, like low lying aches and tooth pain that I get zero pleasure from.

Jeff: Tooth pain is brutal.

Brett: I hate it so much. I hate it. I hate it so much. Um, but yeah, so that’s my mental

Jeff: Was the surgery like a outta nowhere thing or did you have it planned

Brett: Um, so I’ve had numbness in my fingers, uh, especially on my right hand, but moving into both hands for like five years now. And I had had wrist pain a long [00:04:00] time ago and had been diagnosed with carpal tunnel syndrome and had, uh, completely revamped my working setup to be more ergonomic and changed all of my habits in the pain.

Jeff: keyboards?

Brett: Yeah. And the pain, the pain went away. Um, and then a while later, the numbness started and I didn’t associate that with carpal tunnel. And I finally got into, uh, neurology at Gunderson Health and they did some testing and they did, it’s called an EMG, where they hook up like electrodes and they shock your hand and it bounces all over the place.

And they determined that, yes, I have bilateral carpal tunnel causing numbness in my two first two fingers, in my thumb on both hands. And so they said, when would you like the surgery? And I was like, well, anytime I’m, I got nothing going on. And they’re like, how about tomorrow? [00:05:00] Um,

Jeff: Wow. Gunderson Health has some openings.

Brett: right in Winona too, like Gunderson Health is mostly doctors that work out of the slightly larger lacrosse, Wisconsin, and they travel to Winona usually once a week.

So if you want an appointment in Winona, and the, the clinic is literally a three minute drive from my house, so I prefer to just do it in Winona. But if you wanted in Winona, you gotta wait until a doctor is there for once a week and happens to be available. And in this case, the surgeon was there the next day and had an opening and it, it, I was in there at like seven in the morning

Jeff: Wow.

Brett: I was there until, like, the surgery takes five minutes, but,

Jeff: minutes.

Brett: but I, but I did the prep, which involved like a bizarre amount of mouthwash and nose iodine.

Jeff: I mean, obviously, or maybe that’s just the Gunderson way

Brett: What, [00:06:00] like they’re like, this

Jeff: you want your surgery tomorrow. All right, here’s your mouthwash. Be ready.

Brett: this has been proven to reduce infection. If you like, use all this mouthwash, clean your nose for like two minutes straight with iodine swabs and wash your hands from fingertip to elbow for three minutes per side. Um,

Jeff: like Robert f Kennedy’s America.

Brett: yeah. But anyway, but so like I did the prep and then I waited for like two hours and then they give me, it was partial and like I don’t, partial anesthetic, I think it’s called. They don’t put you completely under. So I remember the whole thing. I remember them putting a blue tent over my head and pulling my arm out and I remember being about to

Jeff: thing sounds like you’re describing a dream about a carpal tunnel surgery

Brett: I remember being

Jeff: tent and then the mouth, the mouthwash was still leaking from my mouth and my nose.[00:07:00]

Brett: it was a little dreamy. I remember being about to ask if I could watch the surgery and they, they pulled the te, the blue tent back and they’re like, okay, we’re done. But I didn’t feel anything. Like the anesthetic apparently worked really well. Like I was conscious, but I didn’t know they had even touched my hand.

Jeff: That’s bizarre.

Brett: Yeah. So anyway.

Jeff: My God. That’s cool. I’ve always wondered about doing that surgery. I got the, I got the C ct, I got the carton, and, uh, and it’s very uncomfortable. And, uh, but I

Brett: you have pain or numbness or both?

Jeff: I have a little bit of numbness. I have definite pain. I, the problem is I hate mouthwash. That’s, that’s what’s kept me from doing the surgery all this time.

Brett: you’re killing

Jeff: you’re, you’re more brave than me, Brett.

Brett: So I get the other hand done in a month,

Jeff: [00:08:00] Oh, wow.

Brett: I can’t submerge this hand in water for four weeks. So really by the time I’m able to take a shower without a bag over my hand, I’ll have to do the other hand and I’ll still be taking a shower with a bag over my hand.

Jeff: Wow. Ugh.

Well, I’m, I’m glad. I hope it helps. It’s awesome. I mean, it seems like it does help. Usually I have people I

Brett: Yeah. I already, so like I. The, my fingers were numb to the point where I couldn’t button a shirt and I couldn’t, like zipping up my fly. They’re numb on my right hand and I zip a fly with a right hand and I could not feel the tab on the, on the fly.

Jeff: but fuck it. You work from home

Brett: sweatpants. That’s the answer. Um, but like, so I was zipping myself up with my left hand and. All these things that like you just take for [00:09:00] granted. Like my over the, my, uh, bone conducting headphones have buttons right behind the ear for turning them on and off and fast forward play pauses, et cetera. But you’re supposed to be able to feel them with your thumb and order to tell what button you’re hitting.

And I couldn’t tell if I was hit a hitting a button, let alone what button. And now, and wait, hold on. It was supposed to take up to a year for me to get feeling back after this surgery. And even two days later, I can feel my zipper already.

Jeff: Oh, that’s so good. Because you know what, if I can’t feel my zipper, I don’t even feel like I’m alive. I’m holding onto it right now. You know what, my, my son and I went and saw, uh, napalm Death in the Melvins at First Avenue and um, uh, it was about a two or three weeks ago now.

Napalm Death and The Melvins

Jeff: Um, napalm Death, I mean, they were both the Melvins and Napalm Death were both phenomenal.

Um, but, uh, napalm death, their singer, [00:10:00] who’s, I mean, if you, if if you haven’t seen this guy in action recently or at all, you should people just Google like their recent shows ’cause he’s a trip. Um, and he is, and he is fantastic. And he is an incredible, just like,

Brett: He’s gotta be 50, 55

Jeff: He’s gotta be older than that.

But I don’t know. I don’t know. But anyway, um, he came out and he had these super skinny jeans on with like suspenders. He’s, he’s really skinny. He wasn’t always really skinny, but he was really skinny. Um, and, uh, and his fly was down a little bit. Like the kind of way that if your pants are weird, it just won’t go all the way up.

Right? And,

Brett: are pretty much all the time.

Jeff: There’s a point at which the crowd just couldn’t stand it anymore. And, and they were yelling at him between songs. The S Fly is Down, which may not even have been something that translates to British, uh, English that well. And, uh, and he couldn’t make it out. And he just kept, he kept saying like, I can tell that what you are saying to me is important.

I cannot understand what you’re saying. It seems that this is important to a lot of people. then he finally figured it out and he is like, oh, my zip. [00:11:00] Yeah.

Brett: Oh, that’s

Jeff: also just the fact that if you know nothing about Napalm Death, but the name, the fact that the singer is utterly delightful is, and, and just incredibly charming is not something that even I totally expected. Um,

Brett: Napalm Death was one of my first metal albums after Cannibal Corpse

Jeff: Who I’m also going to see at First Avenue.

Brett: Nice, I can’t believe these guys are still around. But, um, the thing, I, I enjoyed it. It was okay. I was in middle school. I ended up liking Metallica better after I found, uh, and Justice for All. Um, but. Then, uh, alternative tentacles put out, uh, I can’t remember the name of the album, but it was all covers of Dead Kennedy’s songs and Napal death did Nazi punk’s fuck

Jeff: Yep, yep,

Brett: it re, it renewed my interest in Napal death, and, and I got back into them after that. [00:12:00] But

Jeff: What a great band. It was a phenomenal show. I’m not a Napalm death person. I’ve barely listened to them in my life. I was there for the Melvins for sure. Um, and, uh, and they, man, did they win me over. Oh

Brett: Should I, should I give the Melvins another chance? Like I never,

Jeff: she give the Melvins a daily chance.

Brett: yeah.

Jeff: I mean, it’s a, it is a phenomenal band. There’s still no one that sounds like them.

Um, and, and they’re, I mean, actually one of my topics, so let’s, let’s put a little like, as they say, pin in this. ’cause uh, my first topic is related to that show and a bunch of shows I’ve been seeing, and it is about age and all these things. Um, so we’ll talk about it. But, um, I mean, I’m a, yeah, I’m a huge fan and have been forever.

Um, didn’t think I needed to see them again until I saw they were coming. And it was the best show over theirs I’ve ever seen. Um, it was unbelievable. Anyway, uh, I’m, you know, my, my, uh, my corner in my corner, uh, it’s kind of a similar like, uh, medical theme. I, you know, I, I go like months not tending to the things [00:13:00] that are just like barking out at me that need attention from a doctor or a specialist or something.

And I kind of just beat myself up because I can’t figure out why I’m not just making the call. ’cause it’s pretty easy to make those appointments to stay and age. Um, you don’t have to call people. And, uh. I finally just kinda like had the right shift and made all this, I do this every year, made all the calls made about six appointments, you know, and so I’m going through like a three week period where I’m, well, some of them I don’t have till October, but, and it’s been awesome.

It’s like a awesome, uh, it’s awesome to know I’m tending to myself, um, and, uh, and always like some new discovery where it’s like, oh, I’ve been suffering that for 10 years, but I decided to finally ask somebody about it and look, they have an answer, wouldn’t you know? Uh, well that was in Minnesota.

Wouldn’t, you know, down here at Gunderson Health, we’ve got a solution for you. Uh, um, yeah, so that’s just been, [00:14:00] it’s been nice. It’s a relief every time I go into these. Places and, and have something tended to. So it’s really great. It’s a, it’s dispiriting how, how there are things that feel urgent that you can’t schedule before October for, um, apparently not at Gunderson Health,

Brett: No. Uh.

Jeff: in my system.

Brett: In, in general, Gunderson schedules me a couple months out, but not until October. I

Jeff: Oh yeah, no, and that was just like an endocrinologist. It’s not even like a big, you know, it’s like just, it’s a video visit. I mean, it is like, it’s, it’s just crazy. Um, but as a transition out of this, because we’ve said Gunderson so many times, which anybody not from Minnesota or Wisconsin or maybe Iowa, definitely Iowa, uh, doesn’t understand how it almost causes a Midwestern or a Minnesota person to like, release hormones or something.

It’s like, it’s that, it’s, it’s that much

Brett: that, or Mayo that Gunderson or Mayo both have, [00:15:00] both have, uh, endorphin reactions.

Jeff: doesn’t get the Saudi prince’s, Mayo does, but that’s fine. That’s fine. That’s why Gunderson can schedule you same day for a heart surgery. Um, I heard there was some wildfires up, up this way and, uh, there’s an airplane going over my house right now.

I don’t know if you can hear it. It’s extremely loud. Um. There was a, there were wildfires here, an amazing Minnesota moment on Minnesota Public Radio where there’s a sheriff, it’s up north. Everything you picture about Fargo and the way that they talked in that movie, it’s like little exaggerated, but not always much.

Um, depending on who you’re talking to. And the further up north you get, the more likely you do. It’s true. You get that. Um, and uh, the sheriff was talking about having to go in and evacuate a couple people who didn’t wanna leave. And he is like, and there was one old guy over by the lake there, and uh, he told me the only way he’s leaving his house is toes up. It was, it was made my, like, my heart just so warm and it made me feel like this is my home.

Brett: So like are [00:16:00] there wildfires in Minnesota or are

Jeff: They’ve calmed down now, but there were some, um, up north in Minnesota and then there were definitely the ones in Canada, which made our, did you get the smoke all the way down in Winona?

Brett: Our, our air quality, like a week ago we had like four days of poor air quality and then it was okay for two days and then right back to poor air quality. And I am, I cannot sleep without my CPAP right now. And I am short of breath all day and yeah, it’s killing me

Jeff: Yeah. That’s brutal. Um, well, okay, so you put political murder on the show, uh, uh, on the list and, and I’ll wait ’cause we’ll come out of it with my, um, my punk rock shows topic ’cause that’ll be a nice thing to come out of.

Brett: a as a, as a palate cleanser.

Jeff: ’cause a palate cleanser from political from assassination.

Brett: Yeah. I just,

Political Events in Minnesota

Jeff: We’re in Minnesota is the context.

Everyone heard about Minnesota this past week.

Brett: everyone heard about it. It was national [00:17:00] news, but, um, it was shocking to me. The whole thing is just fucked up. Like, I get assassination attempts, but the, like, the deliberateness of like impersonating a police officer going in and murdering, hitting multiple houses and having like a whole hit list of, of democratic representatives and governors that, that you wanna hit is, I wouldn’t, if this is ha if this had happened to Republicans, I I would not be gleeful about it.

Like it is, it is not, I will admit, like there’s part of me that thinks that if Trump had been assassinated a long time ago, things might have been moving more slowly towards fascism than they are. Um, but I don’t, [00:18:00] I, I don’t think political assassination is an answer because I. New heads just pop up. Like if, if your goal is productivity in this space, um,

Jeff: And this, this at some point was a productivity PO podcast,

Brett: if your, if your goal is productivity, you’re not accomplishing anything by killing figureheads. Um, and it’s at that point it’s just murder that affects like real people. You’re not accomplishing political goals in the way you think you might be. And yeah, it was. And, and so, and then I guess the thing that I wanted to talk about was kind of the fact that like Waltz came out and said, don’t go to the no Kingsburg test,

Jeff: as people were driving out to

Brett: yeah.

Jeff: was the state patrol first

Brett: because the, at that point, the killer had not been caught still at large, and everyone felt [00:19:00] unsafe, especially in. Kind of the liberal sphere and, um, what, 80,000 people still showed up.

Jeff: Across Minnesota 80,000. Yeah. There were like 25,000 in St. Paul. Um, and it was really just great vibes there. And, um, yeah. Yeah, I I, I feel like the state patrol kind of had no choice but to say, don’t go. It would be good negligent to not do it, but I didn’t, I didn’t get the sense anyone was, you know, it was great.

Brett: Yeah. So I, and I bring this up because you were, you were much closer to all this than I was. I was watching it from afar. I was just kind of curious about your take and how you felt about it.

Jeff: I, it’s really stunning and awful and, and, um, it’s, it’s just crazy when it’s your local legislature. Like it’s, it’s very, it’s not what you. Expect Melissa Hartman was great. Um, I don’t know much about John Hoffman. Um, doesn’t [00:20:00] matter that they were great, they shouldn’t have died. Uh, but it’s, it’s just, it was, yeah.

And the, the, it was a little fascinating as those things tend to be, um, just this strange and bold way in which he did this, the difficulty in kind of tracing, he had a weird life. He’s sort of a intense dude, but trying to trace anybody’s life to political assassination is, doesn’t, you can’t find that road that easily.

Right? Like, that’s the, that’s so strange to me. And he, and he went to two other, um, lawmaker’s homes between the two that, um, he shot up, which is something came out yesterday and it was fucking chilling. Like, one of those, one of those people were just, they were on vacation, uh, but he was knocking at their door for a long time.

Like, I just can’t imagine. Yeah. My brain always goes to the like. Just to the human thing that we can murder. Like I’ve met a fair amount of murderers in my life just from work I did in death row. And um, it’s [00:21:00] really, I, because of that, I experience these types of things. I don’t know differently from a lot of people, but differently for most people.

I know I’d see him when he was cuffed and being arrested and, or even in the security footage where he was kind of brilliantly hiding with a cowboy hat. Like, you wouldn’t think that would be a good idea, but then it was kind of like, well actually no, I’m not. That doesn’t seem like probably the guy. Um, but just knowing.

I just looking at someone who’s killed in the last 24 hours and, and trying to, what are you even looking for? What are you, what can you even see? What do they feel like? It’s not like people who do that don’t feel anything afterwards, right? Like, he’s feeling something. I don’t know what he might be feeling.

Numb or cold. He might be feeling a little confused about how he got there. He might be proud. I, I have no idea. But I get, I get pretty consumed by just the fact that as humans we can make this decision. And there’s been this really, I don’t know if you, you saw, [00:22:00] um, the interviews with his, he, he had a home in the, uh, you know, outstate.

But then he had, um, he rented a room in north Minneapolis, um, with a couple of guys and, ’cause he would sometimes be in the city, it was apparently the story. And, um, one of the guys in that house was like his, his buddy since fourth grade. And he got, he was interviewed. Really as the day that it, you know, the news came out, he was interviewed and ’cause he got a text from the guy who was like, Hey, I’ve made some decisions.

They were hard decisions. Uh, you know, I just want you to know I love you. Um, I may be dead soon. Um, and, and, and, you know, you had nothing to do with this or whatever. It almost was like, seemed like a very intentional sort of trying to help him be exonerated too, so that, ’cause this guy was so close to him.

And, um, but he’s, you know, he is reading this text and he is just heaving crying. Um, you know, this is his friend who’s done this thing. And, and it was such a human moment and it, it humanized this guy that did this horrible, horrible [00:23:00] stuff too. And, and that guy was interviewed like every day for three days.

And that was actually to me like. Kind of the most fascinating thread because it was, you were then seeing this. ’cause his family, we didn’t see his family. We don’t know any of his family. His wife, he has kids, they homeschooled them, but we don’t know, we never saw them, didn’t hear their names, nothing like that.

But this guy just kept coming out for the reporters, um, on his, on his stoop and just sort of musing. Um, you know, and just, it all just unfolded. His processing unfolded in real time in, in these three or four interviews, and it was really intense to

Brett: This is. This is, so this brings me to my big, uh, self searching question is, uh, with Luigi Mangione, I, I felt nothing for the victim,

Jeff: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Brett: um, or the victim’s family or any of the, the humans that [00:24:00] would be affected by this action. I saw it as a more, uh, political statement and one that I hoped would lead to revolution.

And like I had a very different reaction to it. And I think, I think I’m searching right now to figure out why, uh, it’s on its face. It’s very hypocritical, and I’m searching for why I feel different about this. Like I said, like even if it had been, uh. A, a Democrat killing Republicans, like I would not have supported it.

Like, I just, I don’t, I don’t see that being, just from a practicality standpoint, I don’t see it being useful. And from a human cost standpoint, I see it as terrible. Um, but I felt differently

Jeff: Well, treading very carefully here. He the two. People who were shot and certainly their [00:25:00] spouses as well, which is, and, and they had to euthanize one of the dogs. And all this stuff is like, these were people that have a long history documented of helping people. Um, and so that, like, that could be one reason, right?

Like, it’s just like, um, and I’m not, I’m not arguing for, um, lack of feeling towards the United Health guy who’s, by the way, name I can’t call up right now, which says its own as its own thing, right? Um, but you know, for me at least, like, it’s, it’s profoundly different. That doesn’t mean that I feel nothing for the victims in either case, but again, I end up weirdly thinking first about the people who, who did the thing.

I mean, like, I, this is gonna sound kind of, I don’t this, I don’t want this to sound shallow, but like, if you’ve ever read Crime and Punishment. Sevki, which is an incredible sort of document of someone unraveling after committing a murder, a very strange murder that you can’t understand. But that he, it’s almost like this one.

It’s [00:26:00] like I get the symbolism of what this guy did, um, over the weekend. Um, but I, I just can’t understand how he landed there, um, in any sort of, I don’t know why. Like with the Luigi Mangi thing, you kind of, you get, it’s very clear how he landed there on that person, on that, you know, it’s very easy to, for me and for you it sounds like, you know, easy to take in, but, um, but that is, yeah, I just get carried away honestly by the, I end up, it’s not even empathy exactly, but it’s just, that’s the victim is like that thing.

It’s easy to instantly feel all the difficult feels about the victims and that was definitely the case here. Um, but anyway, and then the lighter, the, if I’m just being flip. Um, it occurred to me that Luigi, Luigi Magni was gorgeous, and this guy looked like every other middle-aged man walking through

Brett: haven’t seen, I haven’t seen this guy. I don’t, I

Jeff: You, you would recognize him as everybody’s [00:27:00] uncle in the western suburbs

Brett: the Minnesota, every

Jeff: Uh, everybody’s white uncle. I should be clear. Um, anyway, no, it’s really, it’s, it’s awful. It’s awful. My God. It’s just, it’s, it’s striking and what’s so, I mean, it’s striking. That was a stupid thing, but like the fact that he visited two others and just the weird chance of him, them encountering him when they did, not knowing how much further he could have gone.

’cause it was late, you know, it was like two or three in the morning. It’s like, eh,

Brett: I will say it was nice to finally have people in authorities saying, don’t talk to cops.

Jeff: Oh, that was so strange. Yeah. I don’t know if, I don’t know how much of this was, was in the national news, but what Brett’s referring to that was so striking was because this was a guy who showed up alone, impersonating a police officer. The thing that Minnesotans were told, and especially those in Brooklyn Park, which is a nearby suburb, um, actually it was more Plymouth, which where I lived in my last year of high school.

It was like a [00:28:00] very unremarkable, um, suburb. Um, and, uh, everybody was told, if it’s a single officer that comes to your door, call 9 1 1. They’re, you know, everyone’s in pairs right now. And that was like a super interesting. That puts people, I mean, can you imagine being in that situation? Um, ’cause you can imagine, uh, there’s a scenario where they are out as partners, but suddenly they’re separated and want us to go to a door, whatever.

Like it’s just, and if I’m the per, I mean, it’s just Jesus Christ. Like if it’s not two, it’s the killer. Like, fuck. Um, that was really, really incredible.

Brett: I think it’s important for people to know that you can demand a warrant before you let any, before you even open the door for a cop, you can demand a warrant and you don’t have to talk to cops. And I think if people weren’t so trusting of police, maybe impersonating a police police officer wouldn’t be such an effective way

Jeff: Yeah, but at the [00:29:00] same time, like just taking it as a a without this isn’t a rebuttal to what you’re saying at all. But at the same time, what was so striking about this is a, a cop shows up with sirens on at three in the morning, knocking on the door saying there’s been a shooting in the neighborhood.

You’re opening the door. Yeah.

Brett: I didn’t know

Jeff: You’re opening the door like a, you know, and you’re a, you’re a state legisl, you’re a lawmaker. Right. Like you’re, you’re opening the door and, and that was.

Brett: insidiously crafty.

Jeff: He had a really freaky rubber mask on. Have you seen that

Brett: No, I haven’t

Jeff: ring camera photo. He, he was wearing like the rubber mask of a bald white man, and, but he had a big flashlight, so if he’s shining the flashlight, you can’t

Brett: Uhhuh.

Jeff: it right away, you know?

Um, but yeah, it was a really just craven. Horrible,

Brett: premeditated.

Jeff: yeah, it was really awful.

Brett: Wow. All right, so bring us back to some punk rock death metal.

Jeff: Yeah. So, um, I have had such an interesting experience [00:30:00] over the last couple months ’cause I’ve been going to shows for the first time in a really long time. Um, and they’re exclusively the performances of men in this case who are. 10 to 15 years older than me, I’m 50. Um, and so it started with, I went to see, um, with Danny Gl Glamour, hi, Danny Glamour.

I went to see Mike Watt, um, and his, and a group he’s in right now called MSSV, which was incredible. And it was at a small club here that Brett knows called The Turf Club. And so I could just stand right next to the stage and, and just, you know, I could hear, you know, I could, I could hear the guitar player click his pedals, you know, like you’re that close, which is just an incredible way to see music and kind of the only way mostly I’ve ever seen music since my, you know, since my arena days ended at about 17.

Um. So we saw that show also, Greg Norton of Huskerdoo played with Charlie Parr, amazing blues guitarist from Minnesota in the, in the, [00:31:00] um, in the band. Before that, he had Greg Norton, another example. Then I went and saw Napalm Death and, and the Melvins. And um, and again, you got, you know, probably ranges are like late fifties to mid sixties there with all of those folks.

And then, uh, we drove down to Des Moines, my boys and I, to see acid bath and high on fire. Um,

Brett: either of those

Jeff: yeah, I didn’t know acid bath, although now that I do, it’s bizarre. I didn’t, they were a band in the early nineties, kind of sounded like some of the, some of the early, like sub pop and SST and later SST and early, uh, sub pop, I, I guess later SST, they’re still around, but, um, but like, uh, maybe like, uh, early nineties.

Sub pop, um, SST and Sub Pop. Anyway, they, um, they were a band that was from New Orleans, and they were, they’re, they’re considered what the kids call now, like sludge metal, but they have so many names for the metal now, these kids, um, and, and, uh, and, and they’re from New Orleans. And they, they put out two [00:32:00] records.

And the reason they broke up was because their bass player died in a tragic car accident with his parents, actually. And so they broke up and, and now they’re back together after all these years. And my son came upon them and just really fell in love with the band and, and was like, if you heard these guys, he played, I’m like, what?

I would’ve loved this. How did I miss this? Like 92, 94, I think with their two albums. Anyhow, so they’re, they’re doing this thing and that was amazing just because like, they have a, they have a following of fans who never thought it’s kinda like when Lint reunited never thought they would possibly see this band again.

And this band was fucking vital. All these, and I saw High On Fire, which is. The guitarist and, and singer of sleep, the band sleep. Also just like an awesome, I don’t know if it’s sludge, metal, doom metal, I’m not sure. Um, but all of these people were, were older than me by 10 years, uh, I’d say on average. And they were so vital and so, so just completely present and, and mind blowing.

And it was as good as any show I saw in the nineties when everyone was [00:33:00] 25, you know, and 30 and, and uh, and it kind of messed my head up a little bit ’cause like I, you know, I was in bands for shit Dale Kroger borrowed my drum set. Um, it was the Melvin’s drummer, uh, like I was in bands in those days. It was in the same label as the Melvins.

Like I think of my rock days as over, they are over. And I’m not in a band. I haven’t been in a band since like 2007 or 2008. Um, and I just think of myself as like retired or something. ’cause like, I have no business playing loud punk rock music or something. But then here, here they all were and they were just.

So fucking good.

Brett: I saw, I saw Iggy Pop shortly after his 50th birthday

Jeff: yeah. Which at this point, he was a child

Brett: Yeah, come, yeah, that was, it was a while ago, but, um, but he was climbing Marshall Stacks and, and he, he cut his chest till it bled with his microphone [00:34:00] and like, was just all over the stage. And like, I had never seen, like I am old enough and grew up sheltered enough that this was the first time I had seen Iggy Pop.

Live in any capacity. And I’ve seen videos. I, you know, I grew up in an an era of VHS bootlegs and like I had seen Iggy Pop, but I had never seen him live until he was 50 years old. And I swear it could have been, it could have been him from like the David Bowie era, like Iggy Pop. It was, yeah, it

Jeff: well it’s because he is alive and an artist and that is sort of outside of time and he has been since he was, you know, 20 in The Stooges. He’s born in 1947. By the way, for anybody that doesn’t know Iggy Pop, like it’s a long time ago, he is still playing. I was just watching a TikTok of him yesterday, still playing shirtless at like [00:35:00] 400 years old.

He is like a biblical character at this point. I saw him at First Avenue and, and he really, I mean, he is someone that changed me, um, just understanding

Brett: Did, when did you see my first stab?

Jeff: some at First Avenue on his American Caesar tour, which would’ve been somewhere around 94 or five, I think.

Brett: I saw more like 2000, I don’t know, mid early two thousands. Um,

Jeff: Yeah,

Brett: it wasn’t the same show,

Jeff: well he, he jumped off the stage and landed on me and I was holding him up by his chest and his head was, his forehead was pressed against mine and he had his microphone and he was screaming in those giant, if you haven’t seen it, he popped everyone probably has the beautiful giant eyes were just like in my eyes.

And I think something happened to me that day. I think something passed into me. I can’t know what person I would’ve been without that, that moment, that cosmic moment.

Brett: you know, who else is a really great performer, no matter how old they get is [00:36:00] Nick Cave.

Jeff: Oh, unbelievable.

Brett: Not, not your like punk rock jump off the stage kind of guy. But last time I saw him, he was. Over 50, maybe 60. I don’t know how old he is now, but I saw him a few years back and like, he was like, it was, it was at a smaller venue in Minneapolis.

I can’t remember what the theater was, but like, it was a theater with like opera house seating. And like, he took his mic and he walked across the backs of the, the seats rows out into like eight rows deep in the audience. And like sang, um, I can’t remember the name of the new album, but he sang the title track like directly to a young woman in the crowd.

And people are just like clawing at his legs. Like he’s not, he’s not huge. Most people I

Jeff: skinny man.

Brett: No, I mean like popularity

Jeff: Oh, [00:37:00] popularity. Yeah. Yeah.

Brett: I think most, most, most Americans ha haven’t heard of Nick Cave. Um, or at least haven’t heard Nick Cave. But for

Jeff: be very confusing to you if you were watching him play. You would wonder how is it possible that I’ve never heard this man’s beautiful songs?

Brett: for like his crowd, for his fans, it is a fanatical appreciation even for me, like I just. Like Nick Cave is like a God to me. Um, he, he, he commands, he’s like a tree.

Jeff: yeah,

Brett: the best, that’s the best metaphor I can come up with for Nick Cave. He’s like a tree that like protects you and, and weathers the storm.

And he’s also like seven feet tall. At least it

Jeff: he was short. Is he tall? He presents as very tall. Sorry, everybody. I

Brett: tall.

Jeff: and short.[00:38:00]

Brett: He’s big. He’s hulking.

Jeff: He’s um, he is one of those performers. Iggy Pop is one of those two that like you, it just pulls you out of yourself. Just when he walks on stage, it’s something you just, he’s so captivating and almost

Brett: Yeah. No matter how self-conscious you are going into the show, you will forget about it and you will just be there to see Nick Cave or Iggy Pop or any of these vi vital characters.

Jeff: from the Melvins

Brett: Yeah. Any of these

Jeff: Wearing a giant moo with eyeballs on it.

Brett: draw you out of your own shit and into their show. Yeah.

Jeff: And that’s, that’s been incredible for me too, is like, I, I stopped going to shows. I mean, I’ve gone to a few every, you know, maybe I don’t know what I’ve, I’ll go a year with no shows. I’ll go a year with two shows and now I’m just buying up tickets. Just bought, bought tickets to the acid bath show in Minneapolis.

’cause they have this amazing. Metal band I love called Wind Hand, which is the rare metal [00:39:00] band with a woman singer. Um, and I bought tickets to go see the Jesus SLIs. And by the way, most of my music listening is like folk and jazz. But if I’m gonna go to a concert, I want it to be so visceral, um, because that is the experience.

You can’t, you can’t recreate.

Brett: seeking.

Jeff: Yes, exactly. And I got to be on the edge of mosh pits at all these shows, which was really delightful.

Brett: But not in mosh pits.

Jeff: Well, I got pulled in once and I could not get back out. You know, once you’re in, everyone thinks you want to be in, so you try to get out and they push you back in.

I’m like, no, no, no, I’m not. I’m gonna die in

Brett: belong here.

Jeff: I don’t belong here. Look at me. Look at me.

Brett: Yeah.

Jeff: But I love that, I love the, the physicality of that too. Just getting banged into and, you know, whatever. I think that’s, it’s awesome. I thought those days were done for sure. ’cause I didn’t think my body could handle it. My body handled it great.

Brett: That’s awesome. That’s

Jeff: People like having a big guy in the, you know, along the edge of the pit that they can bang into. [00:40:00] Anyway, so that’s been really delightful. And I’m, and I’m just now I’m just all about going to, going to shows. great.

Brett: We should do a sponsor break.

Jeff: Oh yeah.

Brett: Oh yeah.

Jeff: Yeah. We should, I’m gonna stall

Brett: this week, despite all of our health concerns, scheduling issues, we showed up anyway because I.

Sponsor Break: Insta360

Jeff: because today’s episode is sponsored by Insta 360, a leader in 360 degree action camera technology. You don’t wanna be a follower. Field, you gotta be a leader. So their latest 360 degree camera, it’s crazy that that kind of thing exists. Do you remember, like, when they first came out, they were, they must have been like the, the price of an F 16.

Brett: Sure. Yeah.

Jeff: looked like, so, I mean they looked like the Google cars,

Brett: And, and the only people who seemed to have them were the reviewers that they sent free ones to.

Jeff: That’s right. That’s right. That’s right. That’s good. Yeah, that’s true. So their latest 360 [00:41:00] degree camera, it’s called the Insta 360 X five, launched April 22nd. It shoots full 360 degree videos and incredible eight K three oh resolution. That is such good resolution. I don’t know what it means.

Brett: second, 30 frames per second.

Jeff: So, see, we gotta fix that in the script.

I’ll tell you what, not that I’m reading from a script, I’m talking from my heart here. Let’s be clear. Uh, so eight K resolution, 30 frames per second. That’s good stuff. And since it films in all directions at once, which is bizarre and terrifying, you don’t even need to aim the camera obviously. You just hit record.

You live in the moment and you choose any angle you want in the edit. With Insta three Sixty’s mobile app, it’s easy, smooth, packed with AI tools, what isn’t these days. Uh, for a faster workflow, you can even get these impossible drone like third person shots. Using the invisible selfie stick that Christina Warren has told us is pretty cool.

It [00:42:00] disappears from the final video. Which is super weird and cool and probably some crazy ass algorithm and cheers to whatever team had to work on that over there. Insta 360. Um, so from immersive POVs to unique third person shots, X five is every camera you’ll need in one. It’s an efficient triple AI chip, which means seriously smooth performance, plus huge sensors and a dedicated low light shooting mode.

They deliver unmatched detail and quality day and night. The X five also features Insta three sixty’s toughest ever lenses, which are completely replaceable. So you can risk the shot with confidence. So to bag a free 114 centimeter, that’s really funny. Do I have to talk? Hold on. I’m gonna open up, um, I’m gonna do another sponsor.

Brett: that in Inches

Jeff: I’m gonna open up, uh, what is my, um, what is my launcher called right now?

Brett: Oh, quick, uh, what do you use? Launch Bar Alfred

Jeff: Starts with an R.

Brett: [00:43:00] Raycast.

Jeff: Ray casts. Okay. 115 centimeter. That’s 40. Everybody listen to me now. That’s 44.8 8 1 8 8 9 7 6 3 8 inches. Okay? That is a serious selfie stick. It’s worth 24 99. By that I mean $24 and 99 cents.

I don’t have to convert that, do I with your Insta 360 x five standard package per purchase.

Brett: what is that? In Euros.

Jeff: um, please hold h how, how tolerant of a sponsor is this, Brett?

Brett: Oh, we’re gonna, I think they love us. I think we’re good.

Jeff: Okay, great. I don’t know how much it is in euros. Isn’t it usually fairly close? I, let’s just say it’s fairly close. We’re America though. We don’t need to worry about really anything internally or externally. Okay. So to bag of free 114 centimeter invisible selfie stick worth 24 99 with your Insta 360 X five standard package purchase.

Head to store dot insta. 360. The numbers three six [00:44:00] zero.com. So that’s store dot insta three six zero.com and use the promo code Overtired. It’s available for the first 30 standard package purchases only. Hurry up 360 camera. Buy-in people. For more information, please be sure to check out the links in our show notes.

Brett: Well done, I think. I think they’re gonna love that. Read. Who wouldn’t love that read?

Jeff: I mean, look, do you want, do you want me to bring myself to this read or not? That’s the question.

Brett: I did. I did specifically ask you to do this read, so

Jeff: Yeah.

Brett: I was, that’s what I was looking for was the Jeff treatment.

Jeff: Yeah, I think I killed it.

Brett: think you did.

Jeff: I think I deserve one of these. 1 1 4 CM Invisible selfie sticks worth 24 99.

Brett: It doesn’t do much good without the camera.

Jeff: Yeah, that’s true. And I just remembered they’re a sponsor, so they are giving us money either way.

Brett: They are, they’re giving [00:45:00] us money, but not enough to afford one of their cameras.

Jeff: Right. And if this, and if this were early two thousands podcasting, we’d have one of these cameras in our pocket right now. Yeah. Yeah. And I’m not saying Insta 360, that you ought to do that, but I’m not saying we wouldn’t make good use of it.

Brett: Yeah. Yeah. They have my address. They asked for my address. They

Jeff: Lemme ask for your address. Yeah, yeah. Selfie stick shows up. You just went, your sound just went away. Unless you’re just, um, stretching your lips. Everybody. I can’t hear Brett right now, but we’re not gonna edit this out. I’m gonna describe Brett. Okay. Brett’s got some clear frame frame glasses on right now.

He seems a little frustrated. He’s, uh. He’s got headphones with like kind of blue ear things. He’s got a nice blurred background. He’s kinda got a YouTuber background. Oh, he just [00:46:00] left. Listen, I’m glad we’re here together right now because frankly I’ve been waiting for a chance to get you alone for some time.

I want to talk about Insta 360. Okay, fine. We’re gonna have to edit this. This is getting a little ridiculous. I feel very self-conscious, but you look great. I think you look great. I think, uh, it looks like you’re having a nice time. I hope you’re having a nice time. Um, you know, call me sometime. Uh, you can text me too.

I’m not good at texting if you call.

Brett: Hey.

Jeff: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Brett: my God. I don’t know what’s up.

Jeff: Well,

Brett: I’m back. This is gonna take some editing. Huh?

Jeff: you’re gonna enjoy, you’re gonna enjoy the

Brett: A good were were you a good DJ While I was

Jeff: I wasn’t that good. No, but I did play everybody. Do you know about the five second? It’s actually a two second Napalm death song.

Brett: Um, this sounds familiar, but my brain is skipping to wiener. Wiener schnitzel by the [00:47:00] descendants.

Jeff: Oh, it’s different. Listen, here it is. Ready? It’s called You Suffer. That’s it.

Brett: Wow. That

Jeff: then, and then I did my impression of the weaker then. So you wanna hear that?

Brett: Sure.

Jeff: Okay. 1, 2, 3, 4. Talk just a minute about Vibe coding. But yeah, edit it how you want. Please edit all that shit out that I did. ’cause I was just entertaining myself.

Brett: see now, like this was gonna be a hit it and forget it. Kinda.

Jeff: was, especially with that sponsor read I did. We were looking at no edits.

Brett: Yeah, it was gonna be amazing. And we’re supposed to have this out same day, and now I’m worried. But anyway,

Jeff: Well, Brett, I know I happen to know that for Gude, you have like a really big thing and I had just a question for you that may or may not be fruitful. Um, before we do

Brett: I, I am curious what you have on your mind.

Jeff: and at some point I, when we have, when we have time, again, [00:48:00] I, I wanna, I wanna talk to you on this podcast about questions that come up for me as I create several of my dream apps just for my local use using Bolt new all, just almost all text reference stuff.

Literally all of them, basically Brett Terpstra apps that don’t exist can’t be scaled. But it, it’s so interesting because it’s like, it’s the closest I am not a developer, but being able to work through. We’ve talked about this already and, and end up with a, a little app I can use that I’ve always wanted something like this is fucking incredible.

But it raises all these questions that I want to ask you anyway. But I’m actually curious because you have marked coming out and you’ve been working hard and you’ve been able to work in your own, completely in your own environment ’cause you’re not working for a major corporation. What does your, how does your sort of development, uh, environment differ now from [00:49:00] say, when you were building marked or last working unmarked and, and were a free, a free man?

Brett: So, so like cutting out like the oracle years. And so I guess the biggest difference is now that I have cursor

Jeff: Hmm.

Brett: and I don’t rely on cursor for most of my coding, but when I hit a wall and Google isn’t giving me the answers I need. Cursor often can, and it means that instead of spending a day pulling my hair out, trying to get one little thing to work, I can have cursor write me a couple new classes, add some methods, and then I can work those in and I can figure out how, how things should have worked.

Um, cursor is often wrong. Um, right now I’m trying [00:50:00] to debug an issue where the first time you try to open a markdown file in Mark, if you drag it onto the icon or you use the open recent menu the very first time, nothing happens. Like the app doesn’t activate no, no delegate methods are called. It just nothing happens.

Um, but the second time, everything is fine and the first time works. If it’s a Scrivener file. Not a Doc X file or any of the other formats that can open other than markdown,

Jeff: Yeah.

Brett: but if it’s a Scrivener file, it works. So I’ve been going back and forth with Cursor, and Cursor has been infinitely infuriating, just trying the same things over and over.

And I’ll be like, no, we already tried this. This doesn’t work. This is why. And it’s like, oh yeah, sorry for my mistake. Let’s try this and it’ll be the same fucking thing

Jeff: Yeah, yeah,

Brett: And like, it’s not a solution. [00:51:00] But in general, my current rate of productivity owes a lot to, um, ai, specifically to like Claude sonnet, uh, models.

And, and that has, that has changed the game a lot.

Jeff: That’s awesome. That’s awesome. And the Cloud sonnet models also Power Bolt. And are just fantastic.

Brett: Yeah, I’m considering trying some different models to see if this particular bug can be answered. But did I tell you Mark can export perfectly, uh, like a hundred percent valid, a hundred percent accessible UB files now,

Jeff: Amazing. You did not tell me that that was not in the last, uh, episode’s update.

Brett: which means because Mark can open Doc x Scrivener and markdown, uh, and can handle lean pub and GitBook formats, you [00:52:00] can write, uh, an entire book in whatever editor you choose, and Mark can serve as your final eub conversion with styling and footnotes and document structure and table of contents and all of that.

Jeff: That’s amazing.

Brett: it’s so good.

Jeff: You know, it’s funny talking about your struggles with Cursor and how it, you know, continually thinks it got. Something right this time and it didn’t

Brett: It always, it always starts it with, oh, I see the

Jeff: Yeah. Oh, I see the problem. Yeah, exactly. Which is a little bit like what a life of therapy is like, or like, oh, I see the problem, what I meant to do was this.

No, that’s not it. Oh, I see. The problem. Uh, it’s funny because like, as someone who, who has like no skills in this area and for, and really depended on stack overflow for really basic stuff like trying to write a bash of script, right? Um, the hair pulling of that is not eliminated, right? Like, although it, it, it puts you into a, a place in my opinion, where it’s hair pulling plus critical [00:53:00] thinking.

And so you’re actually needed a little bit more than, than I’m, I feel like I’m needed more in the process than I did when I was, you know, wrestling with Stack overflow answers. And I think that’s something that’s, that’s missed or not intuitive by people, um, is that there’s still a a, an incredible amount of critical thinking that has to happen in order to figure out, yeah.

Brett: there are all these times I’ll ask it to do something and I will watch the diffs that it creates as it edits my code and I’ll be like, wait, so here’s, here’s what I just saw you do, and that is absolutely not what I want. And it’ll be like, oh my gosh, I apologize for the aggressive edit. Let me try again with a more focused edit.

Jeff: I’ve, I’ve had an experience and there’s a term that I first heard from. Merlin, and I’m not sure if it was Merlin’s term, but the idea of a cursed thread where sometimes you’re so deep into a thread that you [00:54:00] just, there’s no hope. You’re not gonna extract yourself from it. And I’ve had experiences with bolts, so the like, fundamentally what I’m ever doing is just looking, I’m creating things that help me navigate text basically.

Right. But I also usually want to be able to pull from and write to some markdown file or a CSV or something like that. Right. So my, well, the first thing that I, that I built, I needed it once. I was running it locally. I wanted it, I was running the browser. I wanted it to be able to write to this file that it was reading from.

And it’s like, I’m sorry, browsers cannot write to to file. Which is like in a certain sense true. Right? But I could not get it to realize the thing that it must certainly know, which is we can do this buddy. Right. It took creating a whole nother app. For it to, for it to be like, oh, you know what I can do, I can create like a little node server here and whatever, but the other one would not get there.

And so then I went back to that one. I’m like, you know what you could do? And so that kind of stuff, you just get into a cursed thread where you’re like, we’re never gonna get out of this. Also like a lifetime of therapy [00:55:00] sometimes.

Brett: I mean, ultimately they’re very stupid,

Jeff: Yeah. But it is fun and amazing and that’s cool that it’s, I like hearing you talk about it from your perspective as like an experienced developer.

It’s not like you’re taking anyone’s job.

Brett: right? Yeah.

Jeff: Awesome. Well that’s cool. I’m very excited to talk about Mark that length once we’ve had a chance to see it and I can play with it and stuff. Um, so

Brett: I am considering doing a beta, like the changes are so extensive. It feels like before I release the new version, I should do a beta.

Jeff: what’s a co-host gotta do to get on a beta list?

Brett: I’m thinking about just making it a public test flight beta,

Jeff: Yeah.

Brett: um, that I can just get a bunch of people testing all of the new features. I can run it for just like two weeks. Um, and

Jeff: Have you done it as a public test flight beta before?

Brett: I have done it as a. Public beta before, way [00:56:00] back in like Mark 2.2 era, which was like six years ago. Um, and I did it outside of test flight. Um, I like the idea of doing it through test flight just because it so easy to expire everyone’s beta with the click of a button and then just go on to sell it as a paid app.

Um, ’cause otherwise I have to hard code in dates and ex expiration functions and kill switches and it’s a pain in the butt. But test flight I hope will make it easy. So I will post on Brett turf.com when that, if, if, and when that is available. And I will send you a special text message. Jeff?

Jeff: Yes, yes, yes. That’s why I’ve been doing this for the last two and a half years. I’ve been waiting for this moment. I get nothing,

Brett: And you’ll be able to turn your Microsoft [00:57:00] Word files into EPUBs,

Jeff: which the whole Microsoft thing and this new mark is extremely exciting. Not because I would on my own care at all, but because I have to work with

Brett: Nobody, nobody chooses to work in Word, but the fact is, so many of us have to, and if I can provide tools that make that more bearable,

Jeff: Amazing.

Brett: I’m all in.

Jeff: Amazing. Yeah. Alright, so we’re gonna do GrAPPtitude. Brett has like a, Brett has a whole universe, uh, he wants to introduce into GrAPPtitude here. And so I’m just gonna like, say, take it away, Brett.

App Recommendations

Brett: Okay. So I’ve talked about at least one of these apps from this developer before. Uh, but there is a developer called Soma Zone, SOMA dash Zone, and they, they have four primary apps. Um. Actually in all of this rebooting, I closed my browser, but they are [00:58:00] go to file and ammonite and backup loop and launch control.

And the main pick I had today was Ammonite, which is a uh, tag base. So I do a lot of file tagging. Anyone who’s known me for the last 10 years knows that I love tagging files and my, like most of my file organization is built around tags and there are only two apps that I know of that create like a good navigable tag cloud of all of your file tags.

And that is leap and. Uh, Amite and Amite is kind of my current choice because it also works really well with Devon Think, which is another favorite of mine.

Jeff: Hmm. No. Is it a coincidence that they’re both these seashell [00:59:00] things as

Brett: what Leap and Amite?

Jeff: No. Amite and Devon think.

Brett: Oh, that could, that honestly don’t know if that’s a coincidence, but it may have originally been developed as a specifically Devon think companion. Um, it also works really well with obsidian. Um, but the, the general idea is it gives you a tag cloud with like your most commonly used tags, a little bit larger, and you can kind of drill down and you can set date ranges and, uh, a couple other parameters and just display files based on their tags.

And, uh, it allows for nested tags, so. Um, they originally allowed for, you could type publisher, left angle bracket O’Reilly, and it would create a publisher tag and then a SubT tag of O’Reilly. [01:00:00] And that was great. But the way I’ve always tagged SubT tags is with colons. And in a recent blog post, which I’ll link in the show notes, show notes about my Mac file, finding gems, um, I mentioned it would be so great if I could change the separator from the left angle bracket or Yeah.

Right angle brackets, I’m sorry. Right, right angle bracket to a colon. And, uh, about three weeks later, the developer emailed me and he is like, that’s a great idea. So as of as of yesterday, um, Amite now allows configurable separators between, um, tags, uh, like nested tags in. So you can create, it’s one long tag, but you include separators in it, and that creates a hierarchy of tags.

But so amite aside, uh, [01:01:00] find any file, not find any file. Got to file is like a fantastically fast way to navigate files that you kind of already know the name of. And you just wanna like, rapidly search through huge stacks of files to find a file all from like a little popup quicksilver type of interface.

Backup loop is hands down, the best way to work with time machine backups. If you’ve ever used the time machine interface through Finder, you know, it’s. A bear, like it takes forever to load. And then you have to like be like, Nope, I had to go back one revision. And then you wait another five minutes. And to backup loop gives you like all the revisions all at once, lets you navigate in, uh, like, uh, kind of, uh, hierarchical finder way of, uh, seeing all your files.

It [01:02:00] is, it is, it’s, it’s tits. Do people still say tits? It’s

Jeff: Someone just used that word in conversation with me yesterday, and not in that context, but let’s just say that today and yesterday. People still say it.

Brett: And then finally, um, launch control is, so what’s the lingen? If you’ve ever used Lingen, uh, you know that it got a little weird with like version three and. It’s good. It’s a good app. It’s worth some money, but Launch Control gives you finite control over launch D jobs, which are kind of Max equivalent Toron, um, but way more powerful than Kron.

And if you wanna run tasks at intervals at on events, uh, with any kind of arguments, [01:03:00] uh, standard out, standard, standard air, standard out output, like all of these configurable options, launch Control gives you a EY for managing all of it. And I swear by it,

Jeff: Awesome.

Brett: all of this is from Soone. So if you’re not familiar with the developer, you should check them out.

Jeff: Awesome.

Brett: Yeah.

Jeff: Cool. Um, mine is kind of a funny thing ’cause I, you know, Brett, you’ve done this feature on your website forever called web excursions, and as I understand it, it is generated, is it still generated through your Pinboard account or are you, are you fully

Brett: through a, um, link LinkedIn. I switched from Pinboard to LinkedIn. Uh, but it uses the same script just with the LinkedIn API.

Jeff: So it’s now we call ’em woke web excursions now.

Brett: Sure.

Jeff: [01:04:00] Okay. Um, and, and when you’ve bookmarked something, you write a little something. When you get so many, you’ve got a fucking whole pipeline where all of a sudden there’s web excursions. And, and what I have loved about these since way before I knew you, is they are a great sort of like, look at what Brett’s brain is drawn to and also just like an amazing, uh, there are so many things that I’ve learned about so many apps and whatever else because of your web excursions.

The recent ones have been fantastic, but I’m gonna talk about something that’s not an app at all that I didn’t know existed, which is the complete collection of MTV Head Bangers Ball, um, which you, you linked to and, and from what I could tell looking at it, it is, what that means is it is the videos played in the order they were played over the years.

I think, um, it does not involve Ricky Rackman, the host, um, at all, who was a really important part of my life. But it’s amazing because I just, just went in and scrolled again, which is delightful. You start in the very early days, you’ve got balls to the wall. The great, not the, let’s just say it’s a ballad by the band, except [01:05:00] you’ve got Wasps song, I Don’t Need No Doctor, right?

Amazing Rock of Ages by Def Leppard, right? And you can, you can follow it all the way to the nineties, where now all of a sudden you’ve got like outshine by Sound Garden. An ill-advised inclusive, including uh, uh, uh, even flow by Pearl Jam. I think that was when everybody was trying to figure out what the hell do we do with this moment where Pearl Jam has overtaken hair metal while still having hair.

Um, and uh, and it’s amazing. It’s amazing to look through all these videos. Oh my god. I watched probably most of the broadcast of Headbangers Ball on MTV, which if you don’t know, was the late night heavy metal, uh, video show on maybe Friday, Saturdays. I can’t remember. There was like 120 minutes for the cool kids, for like your older siblings that was like the, you know, all the really cool college rock.

And then for the dip shits like me who were trying to grow my mullet into a beautiful, just straight up, you know, the hair’s all the same length. You had head bangers, ball,

Brett: [01:06:00] Yeah.

Jeff: loved it.

Brett: what I discovered in going through that was, uh. I rediscovered a love of typo negative

Jeff: Oh, nice.

Brett: I never, I never remembered black number one being on head banger’s ball. Um, but like that era of Typo negative was typo Negative was a weird band, man. They came out of, what was their, it was Crow Magnus, I think

Jeff: think

Brett: before, before they were typo negative.

And they went from like, kind of thrash punk to like eventually like Vampire goth metal and, and Peter Steele, tragic death and all that. And sure, like some of their lyrics were straight up like neo-Nazi, which was weird. ’cause Peel, peel, Peter Steele was Jewish and like, he took a [01:07:00] lot of offense when people started calling him a Nazi.

And I can’t defend. Their lyrical content for some of their work, but as a band, as a sound typo negative was like they led nothing sounded like typo negative when Typo negative sounded like typo negative.

Jeff: actually don’t think I’ve ever heard. I mean, I know who they are, but I don’t think I’ve ever heard them.

Brett: Um, yeah. I will send you a few, a few specific tracks to listen to, to give you a feel for. They did an album or is that a plane? You have a

Jeff: Yeah. Sorry. I have an airport nearby everybody,

Brett: they didn’t, um, origin of the Feces that they wanted to make it, it purported to be a live album, but it was actually a studio album that they added a bunch of crowd noise into and like they added people booing and like it sounded, if you listen to the album, it sounded like a [01:08:00] really shitty. show in a small bar. Like it was, it, like I listened to it and I was like, oh man, these guys had a really rough night in like Bumfuck, Iowa and

Jeff: Hey, I’m from Iowa. There’s no such fucking town. You’re thinking of Wisconsin

Brett: Sure, sure, sure. Um, but like, but it was all, it was all engineered to be that way and like it was all, it was mostly like the first album came out as typo negative, and Peter Steele immediately decided he didn’t like it and he wanted to redo it, and they basically put out the same album again. But rerecorded with like, uh, with like a, with like a new shtick and uh, like they were, they’re kind of a fascinating band, but like he’s got, he’s, he’s this, the lead singer, Peter Steele [01:09:00] plays bass and he was seen in multiple videos playing a double base, like a standup base as an electric base, like holding it.

’cause he’s seven feet tall and he’s just like playing and he’s got this deep voice that just appealed to your typical vampire, obsessed, gothic girl. So like all the girls loved Typo negative. Not all the girls a very specific type of girl loved typo negative. But yeah, I found them fascinating and, and scary.

Like in the way that the first time, like when you’re a kid and you first hear heavy metal and it’s scary, but also like, yes, this is it. Like, like typo negative had that effect on me.

Jeff: Yes. I love it. That’s awesome. Um, well, while we’re recommending from Head Banger’s Ball, [01:10:00] um, I just wanna say, and I, I’ve already put a link in the, in the show note, um, show notes, but this, there was this kind of, kind of hair metal band that kind of, it was a hair metal band called The Bullet Boys. Um, and, uh, I went to see him at the Mirage Club here, that’s now a bakery, but it’s a good hair metal club here.

Um, and, uh, they did a cover of Tom White’s. Hang on. St. Christopher, stay with me. Should not be good. Really, really good. And I just wanna, I just wanna put that out there. Um, and then the last thing I want to ask about here is a copy edit question, head bangers Ball, no apostrophe when in, in my thinking, there should be an apostrophe, but I don’t know if it should be before or after the s We’ll let the listeners,

Brett: That’s a really good question. There should be an apostrophe. I would assume it’s after the S.

Jeff: I think after the Yes, that’s absolutely my vote. And yet there’s none at all. And I don’t know what the history is probably got, maybe if I do my oral history of Headbangers Ball, which [01:11:00] probably has already been done, but is my dream, uh, I could, I could do that. Um, that sounds, sounds good. I’ll work on that between now and the next episode.

Show Wrap-up

Brett: All right. Well, thanks Jeff.

Jeff: Yeah, it was a pleasure talking to you.

Brett: That didn’t get nearly as nerdy as I thought it

Jeff: well, we ran out of time because I ended up talking to myself for a

Brett: Well, and yeah, I just, I disappeared. I left you on your own. I’m sorry about

Jeff: No, that’s fine. I’ve got, I’ll leave some of my nerd questions and, and I will ask you to leave in just minimal, uh, content of me speaking alone to the listeners. Um, thank you. Just minimal.

Brett: All right. I love you. Get some

Jeff: Uh, love you back. Get a sleep, brother.