S16 E58: Leona Hioki on INTMAX, ZK Rollups & Privacy

Nov 12, 2025

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Leona Hioki is the CEO, co-founder & architect of INTMAX: a ZK rollup layer 2 that focuses on private payments, scalability, and low fees. In this episode, we talk about scaling & privacy tech for Bitcoin & what we can learn from Ethereum. Time stamps: 00:01:17 -Introducing Leona 00:02:47 - Leona Hioki's Background 00:03:38 - Discussion on Past Podcasts and Zcash Pump Dance 00:05:00 - Privacy Trends in Crypto 00:05:26 - INTMAX Overview: Privacy, Scalability, Trade-offs 00:05:44 - Client-Side Validation and ZKP in INTMAX 00:08:22 - Comparison to Zcash and RGB 00:08:46 - INTMAX on Ethereum and Potential Bitcoin Integration 00:11:02 - INTMAX vs. StarkWare 00:14:15 - Stateless vs. Stateful Systems 00:15:05 - Evolution from Plasma to INTMAX 00:18:56 - Similarities to Lightning Network 00:19:47 - Market Dynamics of Ethereum L2s 00:20:25 - ZK Rollups vs. Optimistic Rollups 00:24:45 - Fragmentation in Ethereum L2 Ecosystem 00:26:19 - Role of Money and Base Outage Concerns 00:28:03 - Trade-offs in Decentralization 00:29:34 - Differences Between Rollups and Sidechains 00:32:42 - Bitcoin Script Limitations and ZKP Verification 00:35:18 - Cultural Issues in Bitcoin Upgrades 00:36:56 - Miner Revenue and Drivechains 00:41:58 - Bitcoin in Japan and Satoshi's Name 00:43:24 - Speculation on Satoshi's Identity 00:44:48 - Early Bitcoin Community in Japan 00:45:28 - Post-2018 Regulations in Japan 00:48:37 - Moving to Switzerland for Privacy Projects 00:50:55 - Amir Taaki's Experiences 00:52:37 - Japanese Society and Libertarianism 00:56:30 - Cryptography History and Crypto Wars 01:00:22 - Podcast Milestone and Hardware Wallets 01:02:38 - Trezor Safe 5 and Quantum Resistance 01:05:58 - Quantum Computing and Privacy Risks 01:08:06 - UTXO Model and Bitcoin's Design 01:09:48 - Satoshi's Intentions and Op Codes 01:11:57 - Bitcoin as Money Network, Not Just Digital Gold 01:14:21 - Monolithic vs. Modular Blockchains 01:17:07 - Drivechains and BIP Proposals 01:20:58 - Stateless Clients for Drivechains 01:24:23 - Zcash's Potential and Comparisons to Monero 01:27:52 - Future Scenarios for Zcash 01:30:57 - Zcash vs. Monero Market Focus 01:33:39 - Client-Side Validation for Zcash 01:36:27 - Interactions with Zooko Wilcox 01:39:47 - Proof of Work vs. Proof of Stake 01:46:16 - Fairness in Proof of Work 01:47:17 - Home Mining Devices 01:51:53 - Decentralizing Mining 01:53:05 - AML in INTMAX Privacy Mining 01:56:34 - Confidential Layers and Bridges 01:57:59 - Proof of Innocence in Privacy 02:00:04 - Replacing Centralized Exchanges with DEXs 02:00:48 - Uniswap and Decentralized Fiat Onramps 02:00:44 - Narrative on Zcash vs Monero Exchange Listings 02:01:04 - Zcash Listings on Major Exchanges 02:01:55 - Monero Listings and Volume 02:03:26 - Ranking of Exchanges 02:05:00 - Alternative Ways to Buy Monero 02:05:31 - Flashshift App for Swaps 02:06:34 - Zcash Support in Flashshift 02:07:15 - Zashi Wallet Features 02:08:00 - Planning Privacy Vampires Conference in Romania 02:09:58 - Vampires and Privacy Analogy 02:11:06 - Challenges of Privacy Conferences 02:12:22 - Interest in Visiting Romania and Japan 02:13:21 - Japan Recommendations and Metaplanet 02:14:15 - Japan vs Switzerland Bitcoin Culture 02:17:18 - Personal Story with Bitcoin 02:19:49 - Reactions to Bitcoin and Ethereum 02:22:27 - Bitcoin vs Ethereum Purposes 02:23:10 - Coin Distribution and Fairness 02:26:49 - Perfect System for Fairness 02:28:03 - Proof of Work Fairness 02:29:02 - Grin Fair Launch Example 02:31:07 - Premines and Dev Taxes 02:32:58 - Spreadsheet Coins and Competition 02:33:05 - Ethereum ICO Success 02:35:28 - Ethereum Competitors' Impact 02:36:50 - Zcash Dev Tax Benefits 02:38:20 - Issues with Scams in Premines 02:39:22 - Value of Experimentation 02:39:38 - Closing Remarks and Follows 02:40:55 - Thanks and Sponsors