Karl Vaters interviews Cory Hartman, co-author of Future Church: Seven Laws of Real Church Growth about what happened when church growth answers didn't work for him or the church he served.

His background and experiences will sound familiar to most small church leaders. And this conversation will be very encouraging.

In this conversation, Cory and Karl talk about 

• How Cory, a “failed” small church pastor became the co-author of a book about church growth (including an update of what "failure" really means)
• The essential distinction between what he calls Upper Room and Lower Room churches
• The four “can’t miss” answers for church growth, and how they did miss for him 
• How he redefines some important terms like “church growth”, “success”, "discipleship” and “conversion” in more biblical ways

And more.

Links:

• Future Church: Seven Laws of Real Church Growth
• Becoming a Disciple Maker: The Pursuit of Level 5 Disciple Making
• Futurechurch.co

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