TCC Podcast #147: Thinking Differently About Copy Clients with Adam Bensman

Copywriter Adam Bensman is our guest for the 147th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. We've gotten to know Adam over the past few months and are very impressed with the business he's built. While so many copywriters struggle to find decent paying clients, Adam has built a great business working with a few, high-paying clients—and still has plenty of time at the end of the day for recreation and fun. We asked Adam about: •  how he went from door to door sales to copywriter (with a few stops in between) •  how he compensates for the “missing advantages” of face to face sales when you’re writing email (or sales pages) •  why you need to couple empathy with pain when you “agitate the pain” •  how to join the conversation in your prospect’s head •  the template he uses when he sits down to write for clients •  establishing boundaries and how it can change your business •  how Adam defines his niche (it’s not the regular way) •  the connection secret he used to find clients that fit in his niche •  the value he creates for his clients (and how he presents it) •  pricing… what Adam used to do and what he does today •  what a typical project looks like (and what Adam does to complete it) •  success fees and how it makes it work for his clients •  how to think bigger about your business We say this a lot, but this is a good one.  To hear everything Adam has to share, click the play button below or download this episode to your favorite podcast player. Rather read? Scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Joseph Sugarman Sales Email Formula Adam’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Rob:   What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes, and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That's what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira:   You're invited to join the club for episode 147 as we chat with copywriter Adam Bensman about his approach to finding high-paying clients and building a business to support his lifestyle, making the time to value switch, how he finds the right clients and prices his projects, and what all copywriters can do to think bigger about their businesses. Kira:   Welcome, Adam. Adam:            Hey. Thank you, Kira and Rob. It's great to be here. Rob:   Yeah, it's good to have you here. Kira:   All right, Adam. So let's start with your story. How did you end up as a copywriter? Adam:            My original background was in psychology and natural medicine, and when I moved to Madison, Wisconsin to pursue that venture, I was making no money in that field. And I set out to put food on the table, literally. I mean, I was that broke. So, I fell into door-to-door sales selling roofing, and from there worked my way up to be the COO of a multi-state roofing and storm restoration company. And when I left that space from burnout, I started in the consulting world. And I was writing all of our direct mail at that company when I was COO, and then when I was doing consulting, I was providing some of those service for clients, not really even understanding that there was a copywriting profession in existence. And I went on to co-found kind of an email marketing-type SaaS for the niche that I came from. And we went six months with zero sales. It was me and one partner. And I was sending emails out to our list that I had built, to past clients. I was posting on LinkedIn, posting on Facebook and engaging all the Facebook groups. We literally went six months with zero sales. And when I kind of reached this breaking point, it was like, we needed to turn the ship around. So, I found an opportunity to joint venture with someone in our space, share their list. And I said, ‘Hey, I'll write a promo series for you as long as I can promote our products.’ And I just poured my heart and soul into these three emails that I was able to write through this list, and looked at all the things I couldn't control when selling in person, which I was really good at, and figured out how I can control them in an email. So, I put together this three-email sequence and drove a $100,000 in contracted sales out of those three emails in a week. And I said, ‘Wow, I'm onto something. Six months, zero sales, $100,000 in a week. This is awesome.’ So, at that point, I was super fired up, and I said, ‘Hey, I'd love to do this for a living.’ And I didn't even know it existed. So long and short of it, picked up my first client as a copywriter from that specific email sequence. I ended up parting ways with my business partner. Just, you know how those go. We were doing well, and it just wasn't a good fit for us to be working together. And when we parted ways, I just set out to do it. And the rest is history. Rob:   I love when you're talking about taking the sales process and making it work in email, when mention all the things that you can't control, and how do you make it so that you can make that adjustment in email. Can you talk a little bit about those things that you don't control or that are out of your control and how you compensate for that when you write copy? Adam:            So what I found when I was doing door-to-door sales, and I train sales teams across the US and Canada, there are certain elements when you're selling in person where you can read body language. You can reel back in attention. You can spike your voice. You can use body language. And for me in in-home sales, I knew if I was invited to the kitchen table, nine times out of 10 I was walking out of there with a signed contract. But I also had the opportunity to bring in sample boards, to walk them out and point to the customers across the street or down the street that I've done, to show up, hold a sample board so they can visualize theirs. So, there's these tactile and tangible experiences that you can deliver to someone when you're selling in person And when you are selling in the written word, you can't control those pieces. So, I sat down, and I was trying to figure, ‘Okay, how do I get them to visualize this? How do I get them to believe that I am the expert? How do I reel back attention?’ And I realized ultimately through doing that that it's about putting the right content in the right order. And I still say to this day, and I know we're not going to get much into the writing process, but good writing is assembled. It's not really written. I mean, there's Joseph Sugarman who said that, and I completely agree. So I strategically place in sequence the hook, the opener, how I talk about pain. I don't just say, ‘Hey, are you sick and tired of being 30 pounds overweight?’ Breaking up that up into, ‘I know what it's like to be 36 pounds overweight, wake up every morning, stand on the scale, open my Facebook newsfeed, see a picture of myself, feel embarrassed, put my pants on and I can't get my belt buckle to buckle...’ Like, getting into that level of specificity in terms of empathy instead of just pain. Where to put in the social proof, how to get people to visualize about using future pacing of what their life or business or home is going to look like when we're done working together, as opposed to standing there with... Now there's even new tools, visualizers and all this stuff. So, controlling the uncontrollable, I think, is the struggle that we all face as copywriters. And that was my big breakthrough, because I was really, really a solid salesperson, and when I tried to do it in writing, I just flopped. And I thought I was amazing at it, too, which was funny. I was like, ‘Oh, I'm a great writer. I was great at sales. I can do this.’ And I realized that when I would write trying to sell, people could feel it. They could feel that I was trying to sell. And when I reread that copy now, I'm like, ‘Gosh, that was sleazy and salesy, and people see through it.’ So, I hope that answers your question. If not, I'm happy to dive back in. Rob:   No, it definitely does. And it feels to me like also the different between in-person sales is that you have that opportunity to address objections as they come up, whereas when you're email or a sales page you've going to be able to anticipate some of that stuff. So are there tricks that you use in order to come up with not just the selling argument and getting them to picture themselves with future pacing using the product or the service or whatever, but able to anticipate the objections they're going to have? And how do you address those in copy as well? Adam:            That is an awesome question. And I can't believe... It's funny. Every time I talk about controlling the uncontrollable, objections are the number one thing I focus on, and today I completely spaced it. Yeah, the answer to that is joining the conversation that's going on in the prospect's mind as they're reading it. And this is the hardest part that I feel like is a skill I've refined over the years writing, is how do I view my copy objectively? And I think we could all relate to this. Writing for ourselves is slower than writing for a client, because we're too close to it. So if I make a statement that says, ‘I can help you increase the click-through rate on your emails by five times,’ your first question would be, ‘How?’ Right? And whenever you make a claim in your copy that is a strong claim, there will be a question. If you make a statement of the results you drive, there will be a question. So any time we're making a statement, we can either address those head-on by just sliding into the answer, like, ‘Hey, I can help you 3X your click-through rate or 5x your click-through rate in your emails,’ and you're thinking, ‘How?