#087 Jason Trennert: If You're Playing The Odds Expect A Recession In The Next 6-12 Months
Jul 18, 2023
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Jason Trennert, co-founder and CEO of Strategas Research Partners, joins Julia La Roche for a wide-ranging conversation on the macro picture. They discuss the likelihood of a recession in the next 6-12 months, the impact on financial assets, and the perplexing market going up despite doubts. They also touch on the labor market, risks faced by regional banks, the outlook for the energy sector, the power of lobbying in investment, and the concept of TINA - 'There Is No Alternative'.
Jason Trennert predicts a recession within 6-12 months due to inflation and Fed tightening policies.
The market's positive trend is driven by a select group of companies known as the 'Magnificent Seven' that benefit from revolutionary technologies and strong cash reserves.
Deep dives
Jason Trennert's cautious outlook on the economy and markets
Jason Trennert, co-founder and CEO of Stretiga's Research Partners, shares his cautious and bearish perspective on the economy and markets. Despite the recent market strength, Trennert believes a recession is likely to occur within the next 6 to 12 months, which is not favorable for financial assets like stocks. He attributes his cautiousness to the persistence of inflation and the Federal Reserve's tightening policies. Additionally, Trennert highlights the resilience of the economy, driven by consumer and corporate cash reserves from the COVID-19 pandemic. He acknowledges that although there is a level of optimism, there is still a significant risk of a recession in the near future.
The market's upward trend amidst recession expectations
Trennert acknowledges the perplexing situation of the market's upward trend despite expectations of a recession. He mentions that it is not normal for the market to rise when the Fed is tightening aggressively. However, Trennert explains that market success is driven by a select group of companies, often referred to as the 'Magnificent Seven,' such as Apple, Microsoft, and NVIDIA. These companies are benefiting from their association with potential revolutionary technologies like artificial intelligence, significant cash reserves, and less dependence on financial markets, making them more resilient. However, Trennert warns about the narrow focus on these high-value companies, as many other stocks may not be good investments due to high valuations.
The Fed's tightening policy and the inflation outlook
Trennert expresses his belief that the Fed is unlikely to stop tightening due to persistent inflation rates higher than the target of 2%. He predicts that the Fed may tighten another one or two times, which, combined with declining corporate profits and an inverted yield curve, may lead to a recession. However, Trennert acknowledges the economy's resilience, as consumers and corporations still possess significant cash reserves. He attributes the market's positive trend to a sense of hope that things will work out despite the risky environment. While Trennert admits the possibility of an opposite outcome, he maintains that there is a good chance of a recession in the next six to twelve months.
Opportunities and risks in the market
Trennert sees potential opportunity in the energy sector due to increased discipline among energy companies, their relationship with fossil fuel demand, and the weakness of the US dollar. He also mentions potential opportunities in the financial sector if the Fed starts lowering rates. However, Trennert advises caution when it comes to the technology sector, as high valuations and concentration on a select group of expensive companies raise concerns. Additionally, he discusses the concept of de-globalization, expecting a shift towards more localized production and defense spending, with potential impacts on global supply chains and costs. He concludes by emphasizing the importance of considering quality and valuations when making investment decisions.
Jason Trennert, co-founder and CEO of Strategas Research Partners, joins Julia La Roche for a wide-ranging conversation on the macro picture.
Strategas has been voted the top independent macro research provider by Institutional Investor for six consecutive years. Trennert discusses the major macro themes that will shape the investment climate for the foreseeable future.
0:00 Intro
1:06 Quite cautious on the markets/economy
2:40 Chances are good that you’re going to get a recession
4:33 The magnificent seven
6:06 40% of the Russell 2000 has not had profits in the last 12 months
7:10 Inflation
9:00 Long way away from the Fed easing
10:25 Not buying stocks at reasonable prices right now
12:30 Opportunities, energy sector
15:30 Thoughts on AI
17:50 Themes
18:40 The end of globalization
22:11 Labor market
24:17 Hard or soft landing
26:00 Regional banks
27:48 Energy sector
32:50 Lobbying ETF (policy opportunities)
37:24 TINA
40:30 Fair value of S&P is probably between 3500-4100
42:00 Career in financial markets
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