No Small Endeavor with Lee C. Camp

231: Unabridged Interview: Garrett Graff

Oct 17, 2025
Guest
Garrett M. Graff
In a deep dive with historian and journalist Garrett Graff, the conversation uncovers the dark trajectory of the internet from a promise of civic engagement to a tool for outrage. Graff discusses the empowering role of social media during the Arab Spring and contrasts it with its later use by authoritarian regimes for oppression. He examines the sinister algorithms that prioritize enraging content and the real-world consequences observed in Myanmar. Plus, he highlights the moral obligations of tech leaders and urges awareness of internet history as a civic duty.
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INSIGHT

Internet's Shift From Promise To Polarization

  • Social media shifted from civic promise to driving polarization and conspiracism over two decades.
  • Garrett Graff argues this transformation explains much of today's collapse of truth and civic cohesion.
ANECDOTE

Arab Spring Organizers Used Social Media Boldly

  • During the Arab Spring, organizers used social media to coordinate diffuse protests that toppled regimes like Egypt's.
  • Those organizers faced arrests, torture, and long imprisonments despite online successes.
INSIGHT

Authoritarians Turned Tools Into Weapons

  • Authoritarian regimes learned to weaponize social media, reversing its democratic uses by mid-2010s.
  • Russia perfected bots and trolls to inflame existing societal seams rather than create new divisions.
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